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Sitting at home means nothing at all. He could be the next Google or Apple trying to make something out of nothing in his studio apartment. What does he tell his friends he is doing on the weekends? "Oh nothing much I stayed home". IT COULD MEAN ANYTHING.
What if I enjoy fish. I like different kinds of tropical fish. I breed them and sell them. I'm not making 100k a year, but I'm "sitting at home" enjoying my life with my kids and enjoying the "job" if you want to call it that everyday. Maybe it isn't passive income since your actually working, but it doesn't take much to grow and breed fish (I do this).
I could make my 20k a year and live in the country and grow my own produce and enjoy every single day of my life. Eat far healthier than someone making 100k in the "big city" who NEEDS his job to pay all of his bills.
Again you don't have to go out to work nowadays. If you have a low overhead you don't need a 100k job to pay for your lifestyle.
I do agree 20k might be too low, but you don't need some 9-5 job working 50 hours a week when in reality your working those hours to pay the mortgage, pay the car, pay the school loans, or any other huge amount. If you don't have all of that you can get by on much lower.
I just don't get why your frustrated because he doesn't work a 9-5 and have to base his whole life on his job.
Another things is that if you have less money you deal with emergenceis with what you have. We all have had car repairs for the most part. A wealthy family making 80k might go to the shop and drop $3000 for a new transmission and other items. Someone making 20k probably doesn't have that so he goes and buys a $600 used transmission and does the work himself. He doesn't feel he got jipped or worries about his used transmission because he did it himself and he can easily put another in. He has the time and values his own work. Who wins and who loses? No one.
Well, since he refuses to tell anyone how he gets his $20k a year, I will assume he does nothing. Until he states otherwise, that is my belief.
As for caring about his job...I really don't care. As for the car, not everyone knows how to fix a transmission, or rebuild an engine. Again, my point is, this is not for the average person. The average person does not know their way around a car engine.
Regardless, I don't care what he does. If he's happy living on 20k, goodie for him. The only part that bothers me is that he is putting out this false information and some naive kid may actually believe it. THAT is what bothers me. Yes, 20k is too low. No, it really doesn't have to be much more than that, but 20k is too low. Maybe that would have worked 20 years ago...not now. Prices for everything are going up, and up, and up. 20k does not get you what it used to.
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Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson
Sounds like you were paying way too much for that apartment.
Back when we lived on 18k we had two cars (paid for), no television (not because we couldn't afford it, but because we don't watch television). Our modest home was paid for. We had homeowners and car insurance.
What on earth were you spending your money on???
20yrsinBranson
I stated, "What I did was work and go to school". Did you miss the last three words of that sentence? My apartment was $450 a month, in Seattle. Seattle is extremely expensive, despite popular belief that others cities are more expensive. I believed what everyone else believed. Wrong, it was expensive. In fact, when I was moving from there, Forbes magazine rated it the #1 Most Expensive City in the entire US. No one believes that. Until they live there.
But anyway, school. What on earth I was spending my money on was school.
Really? You can make $10 an hour with no education? Really? Have you visited the work and employment forum lately?
As pointed out already...we get it. You couldn't make a few buck over minimum wage therefore it's impossible.
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I've had roommates as well. It ends up being cheaper NOT having roommates.
Do we just take your word for it? Should I disregard my experiences having lived in 6 roommate situations with people varying in age from 18-62?
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And what average high schooler has this money saved up?
Any high schooler with a job and a little forethought. Heck, I had ~$300 saved up by the time I was 12. A few birthday/Christmas gifts, raking leaves, mowing a few lawns and other little chores made it happen. You act as though it's impossible for a high schooler with no bills to save money. Do you realize how many hours a kid can put in during summer vacations?
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you're going to start a thread making the claim that all you need is $20,000 a year, then you need to stick with that statement. Thus far, you have changed your statements throughout this entire thread. First it was that you only needed $20,000 to retire. Then it was, "well, you need a savings, first", then it was, "but you need to live with family and not pay rent". The fact is, you are being dishonest or you are extraordinarily naive to how reality is for most people.
How do you believe anyone builds their income and gets ahead? When did I ever say $20k magically appeared in my bank account starting at 18? How did you conclude this based off what I said?
I said work and live with parents until one has enough money to buy a house and invest.
You said no fair not everyone has parents that allow that.
Thus, I showed you how it could be done without parental help.
Now I accused of changing my story?
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Yes, a car will only cost you 3k and never need any work. Again, what false reality do you live in?
And not every $3k car needs major repairs every 3 months. Mine didn't.
Lets face it - you are asking how a young person can get ahead in life yet when you are told, you throw out numerous stipulations and accuse the person telling you of lying if their plan doesn't work for ALL people.
- can't receive a nickel from parents/relatives
- must assume car is terribly unreliable
- Not allowed to live with family upon turning 18
- cant work a job that pays over minimum wage
- must assume person starts with $0 savings at 18 yrs old
- must assume that roommate situations are not feasable
- must assume no financial assistance/scholarships
- must assume child was raised by wolves
Perhaps you were the most unlucky child on the planet?
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Your thread title is telling 20-30 year olds that they can retire on 20,000 a year. In your expenses, you talk about a car. YOU are the one talking about people getting a car. I'm only using what YOU said to show you that YOU are not living in reality if you think that the average person, who wants to do something with their life, can do this with just 20,000 a year.
YES, I have a nicer car NOW. I didn't start out at 18 with the nice car. How did you interpret that from what I said? It's called sacrificing so you can get ahead LATER. This is something that most people have trouble with. They want nice stuff now now now. I saw plenty of people my age buy a new car once they got a decent full time job after high school. DUMB move.
There are at least 4 people in this thread telling you they live on $20k yet you tell us we aren't living in reality? What can we tell you?
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Wrong. So unbelievably wrong. You can get SOME financial assistance, but have you priced schools lately? You are not getting out of it without putting something in to it. And, you think you're so clever, it's why I included, in my question, if you do NOT take on a loan, how are you going to pay for school off of $100 a month? Answer? You're not. Even Community College...which, by the way, will only get you so far. You WILL eventually have to go to a University.
I told you how to do it yet once again I'm not living in reality. I guess no one pays their way through school and finishes with no debt? I'm going to tell several family members that they must have disturbed the space time continuum to do just that. That isn't possible right? And yes, I have priced tuition recently. I believe CC classes run about $200. $200 x 4 = $800 per semester. And this is before any financial aid/grants/scholarships.
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We aren't talking about the lucky break, you titled your thread to make it sound like anyone can do this, and the fact is, that is NOT reality.
Of course it becomes more difficult when you throw up road block after road block, but so far you haven't brought up any deal breakers, that make it impossible.
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LMFAO!!!!!! This is such made up horse puckey all one can do is laugh. Hysterically. You have no clue what things cost, do you?
Unless prices have surged in the last 8-9 years, I believe I have a pretty good understanding. BTW, can you tell us where you live so we can get a better read on COL in your area?
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Live like a pauper, retire like a pauper, simply because you don't want to "answer to the man". What a brilliant plan. I hope to GOD some young person who comes by here doesn't buy in to this crap. You'll have them homeless in no time.
What did you think - live like a king from 18-retirement without making any sacrifices at some point? Your understanding of this topic is equivalent to an 18 yr old going to the doctor's office to apply for an MD position because they make good money.
What you fail to realize is that no one is claiming that your life will be great starting at 18 on $20k/year. However, if one plays their cards right and puts in some leg work, they can eventually be in a position that allows $20k to provide them with a comfortable life.
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Again, you have no idea the reality for most people. None. It's laughable any more and I believe that you live in fantasy land. The only reason I care at all about any of this is so that some young kid doesn't come by here and believe this tripe.
Define "most people"
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Yeah, looks really good on paper. Too bad life doesn't always work like you have it on paper. You don't put anything in for shtf moments. And those shtf moments happen quite often. All it takes is one incident and your theory of "retiring in your 20s" is blown straight out of the water.
I live on 50% of what I bring in.
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If you want to live on 20k a year, and you had family that you could mooch off of while you were in your 20s, then that's fine. But do not sit here and lead people to believe that it can happen to any of them.
Are you the authority on what can and cannot be done in one's 20s?
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As I told your two lap dogs, I have lived off of 20k a year. I had NO car, I had NO cable, I had NO car insurance or gas, I had NO fancy cell phone, only the basic phone to call emergency if needed, I had no fancy furniture, lived in a studio apartment, took the bus or walked, everywhere, never went out, etc.
key word is "I" - you don't represent the majority and you certainly don't speak for those of us that DO live comfy on $20k.
Well, since he refuses to tell anyone how he gets his $20k a year, I will assume he does nothing. Until he states otherwise, that is my belief.
As for caring about his job...I really don't care. As for the car, not everyone knows how to fix a transmission, or rebuild an engine. Again, my point is, this is not for the average person. The average person does not know their way around a car engine.
Regardless, I don't care what he does. If he's happy living on 20k, goodie for him. The only part that bothers me is that he is putting out this false information and some naive kid may actually believe it. THAT is what bothers me. Yes, 20k is too low. No, it really doesn't have to be much more than that, but 20k is too low. Maybe that would have worked 20 years ago...not now. Prices for everything are going up, and up, and up. 20k does not get you what it used to.
I stated, "What I did was work and go to school". Did you miss the last three words of that sentence? My apartment was $450 a month, in Seattle. Seattle is extremely expensive, despite popular belief that others cities are more expensive. I believed what everyone else believed. Wrong, it was expensive. In fact, when I was moving from there, Forbes magazine rated it the #1 Most Expensive City in the entire US. No one believes that. Until they live there.
But anyway, school. What on earth I was spending my money on was school.
Living in Seattle and going to school isn't the same as living in the the rural south which is where I believe the OP said he lives. The cost of living and opportunities simply aren't the same.
When I graduated from high school 20+ years ago, it was possible for a young male high school to college age to be making $10 per hour as an employee of someone else. These jobs weren't common, but I know guys who did it. It was harder to find these jobs if you were female because the jobs tended to be more labor intensive. I also know someone who was early 20's and a home owner. I believe he worked in some sort of home home renovation business with his brothers. Home flipping wasn't as common then so it may have been more profitable. Anyway, he used his money from that to live and to make the down payment on his house. He shared his house with two roommates to pay insurance and mortgage. He didn't want the roommates to take advantage of him so he had an agency collect the rent and utilities. The other two guys didn't know he was the owner.
I think there may be some flaws in OP's long term plan, but I find it entirely plausible that he outright owns his home and is debt free for now. If you are motivated and have the right set of circumstances and support, you can make things like that happen. The OP hasn't shared what he does. I'm assuming it is legal. I would hope he would also find a way to increase his income and invest it so it continues to grow for when he needs it later.
You know what the difference is? The people who went to college and don't have a negative tax liability provide the blood for the leeches. When there's no blood there's no leeches.
You folks can talk all you want about changing how things are by voting but folks like yourself and the OP are the problem. More time is spent figuring out how to rape the system than just doing your part for your country and living a dignified life. If the OP paid for his own healthcare then he wouldn't be able to afford to buy gas, cell service, cable, etc.
Failure to launch isn't a well laid out plan.
Becoming a parasite to society isn't something that should be bragged about.
Living in Seattle and going to school isn't the same as living in the the rural south which is where I believe the OP said he lives. The cost of living and opportunities simply aren't the same.
Problem solved.
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I think there may be some flaws in OP's long term plan, but I find it entirely plausible that he outright owns his home and is debt free for now. If you are motivated and have the right set of circumstances and support, you can make things like that happen. The OP hasn't shared what he does. I'm assuming it is legal. I would hope he would also find a way to increase his income and invest it so it continues to grow for when he needs it later.
Yes, legal. And aside from some liquid savings, most of what's left over is reinvested.
key word is "I" - you don't represent the majority and you certainly don't speak for those of us that DO live comfy on $20k.
OP, you should have stated right away in your first post that your house cost less than what most posters have paid for their car. I'm not doubting you, but your area is a low COL. Now that I know what your house is roughly valued, I'm sure repairs is much cheaper to maintain than most cities.
Most people cannot live comfy on 20k in such areas as NY, LA, San Fran, Washington, or other cities that are more expensive. For that matter, you couldn't live comfy on 20K in my city either.
But you will probably inherit more property from you parents, so never working a full-time job is doable for you.
The median personal income of a person 25+, working full-time, with a bachelor's degree is $50,944. I don't see 2013 numbers on the wikipedia article (and not going to bother looking elsewhere), but the graph through 2010 shows it going down from there rather than up.
So the average person saving half that -- making the simplifying and best-cast for reducing total time needed assumption that 50% is being saved post tax in Roths and making the calculations easier and numbers a bit better than they would actually be by assuming all the money is in tax advantaged accounts (which it wouldn't be because you're busting contribution limits), the total time to accumulate the 800 thousand needed for your scenario (derivation prior post, after removing taxes due to assumption above) would be 19 and a third years. Still (barely) over 40 starting at 22.
Maybe you personally are making substantially more than that and can save more. Most terminal college graduates aren't, and most people aren't college grads.
OP, you should have stated right away in your first post that your house cost less than what most posters have paid for their car. I'm not doubting you, but your area is a low COL. Now that I know what your house is roughly valued, I'm sure repairs is much cheaper to maintain than most cities.
Most people cannot live comfy on 20k in such areas as NY, LA, San Fran, Washington, or other cities that are more expensive. For that matter, you couldn't live comfy on 20K in my city either.
But you will probably inherit more property from you parents, so never working a full-time job is doable for you.
I did mention "low cost of living part of the US" and "modest home" but that could easily be overlooked.
And yes, my plan hinges on getting away from "tier 1" cities (not that I would ever want to go to one anyway).
When it comes to homes, I believe in buying what you need because it's usually cheaper to buy, operate and repair. Needs are very subjective, but for someone living on $20k - you really have to identify "fluff" that just kinda sits there and does nothing.
The median personal income of a person 25+, working full-time, with a bachelor's degree is $50,944. I don't see 2013 numbers on the wikipedia article (and not going to bother looking elsewhere), but the graph through 2010 shows it going down from there rather than up.
So the average person saving half that -- making the simplifying and best-cast for reducing total time needed assumption that 50% is being saved post tax in Roths and making the calculations easier and numbers a bit better than they would actually be by assuming all the money is in tax advantaged accounts (which it wouldn't be because you're busting contribution limits), the total time to accumulate the 800 thousand needed for your scenario (derivation prior post, after removing taxes due to assumption above) would be 19 and a third years. Still (barely) over 40 starting at 22.
Maybe you personally are making substantially more than that and can save more. Most terminal college graduates aren't, and most people aren't college grads.
Windfall from event (bitcoins, apple stock, lottery ticket, poker winnings, whatever).
Extremely high-paying job or successful business.
The first two are not available to the vast majority of people (good for you if you are one of them, but don't pretend like it's viable for others). The type of people in the third are generally workaholic type-A personalities who talk all the time about how they are doing it for the sake of early retirement and then when they have enough money to, don't (with some exceptions).
Edit: I guess you could make the money drug dealing too.....not sure how you'd launder the money sufficiently well to be able to invest it efficiently afterward but I don't launder drug money so I'll accept that might be out of my knowledge base.
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