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"not morally entitled to"?? Wow!! That is quite a statement. And exactly what is this person "not morally entitled to"?
I've read through this long thread and have no problem with anything the OP says, and I wish him the best of luck. The differing views and questions raised are interesting, but I particularly like the OP's views about spending/saving money. They are very refreshing in this world where materialism is so prevalent. I am sure that if the OP and his SO decide to marry and have children, and I hope they do, those children will be much better adjusted and more honest (yes, honest!!!) than the materialistic offspring of the fools who are criticizing the OP in this thread. This could be just what rural America needs, to be resettled by educated, young folks working the land, raising decent kids, and escaping the high taxes, high crime, and congestion of America's big cities.
Yep, resettle the land and push out the meth labs, lol. The rural version of gentrification.
It's diminutive size is one of the first things I mentioned in the OP!
Yes indeed you did, so why did you even ask me:
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I How do you know the square footage of my home?
Did you “conveniently forget” what you said, or did you remember all along and just want to be obstinate?
Perhaps you’re so busy being argumentative YOU can’t have a cogent conversation about your own topic.
Whatever the reason -- bye. I’m getting too frustrated for my own good. Have a nice life, living large on 20K a year. Your plan is great. No flaws or weaknesses at all.
Because you quoted 1500 sq ft as being small in 1960.
I said 1000-1500 sq ft home.
How do you know which end of the spectrum my home falls on when I say 1000-1500 sq ft?
You don't.
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Whatever the reason -- bye. I’m getting too frustrated for my own good. Have a nice life, living large on 20K a year. Your plan is great. No flaws or weaknesses at all.
There is no need to be frustrated.
I truly do want the plan to be critiqued, but debating the definition of "small" or "large" doesn't really have any bearing on the topic at hand.
I believe the fact remains that 1000-1500 sq ft is only truly considered small when compared to the taste of modern America (80s-now). For most of our history and for most people across the planet, a 1000-1500 sq ft home is average or large.
Last edited by eddiehaskell; 01-01-2014 at 09:12 AM..
Cleaning/lawncare and a lot of maintenance can be DIY. At least it is where I come from.
How is doing work in order to save money so superior to doing work to earn money? You're doing the same thing in both cases - exchanging time for money.
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell
Many household supplies can be made yourself - for example, laundry detergent, deodorant, cleaning supplies, toothpaste, etc.
See previous comment.
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell
I'm not sure what you mean by vehicle depreciation. Do you mean the average of how much it cost to drive a car per year?
$15k / 20 yrs = $750/year/$63 per month "depreciation"
Is that what you mean?
Yeah, but how are you going to make that car last 20 years without having the last 5 of those years come with very high repair bills? (Or equivalently, very time consuming DIY work, to which my response is the same as before).
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell
The most common service (oil change) can be done at home. If you buy oil in bulk on sale, it can be had for $1.5/quart. An oil change every 6 months can be as little as $10 or $1.67/month.
There is a lot more to car maintenance than oil changes and tires. Look at the owner's manual.
If you skip out on that maintenance, I can virtually guarantee you that you will NOT get 20 years out of that car!
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell
Tires should last a few years. A set of tires for a small car are about $375 installed and should last 2-3 years = $10.41-$15.60/month.
Property tax depends on location, but mine is $67/month
Travel is optional. Best thing to do there is see what's left over at the end of the year and add it to your travel fund.
Ok, as long as you have sinking funds for all the stuff I mentioned and don't mind the prospect of being unable to travel for a year or two even when something comes up that interests you or there is an important family event such as birth, wedding, death, etc.
I agree that It can be done. I was shocked to find out how low MrMoneyMustache's property taxes and electric bills are.
But to say he doesn't "work" is a bit off. He does carpentry, makes money from his blog, and has income property.
I think he and his family live on $27,000 a year.
The rental property, his lovely house (I think it's worth about 400 grand) , and his savings are all cushions for him. I'm not exactly sure how he calculates his earnings, though. Perhaps he and his wife bring in more than that, and that is just what they live on? I'm not sure.
How is doing work in order to save money so superior to doing work to earn money? You're doing the same thing in both cases - exchanging time for money.
Most people don't do it just to save money. Most people I know don't consider small home maintenance/lawncare to be work. There's a certain sense of pride and enjoyment that comes from making your house look neat and pretty with your own two hands. I'm sure many of the folks here know what I'm talking about. Standing in front of a fresh cut lawn, smelling the grass and the sense that YOU made your neighborhood just a little better. It's pretty serene.
You can often drive through very nice neighborhoods and see home owners working on their lawn.
If we are talking average folks making $40k, I would say most do their own yard work and if not they probably pay a kid down the street 20 bucks every 2-3 weeks. The percentage of people paying an actual lawn care service probably doesn't reach a significant number until you get into the $125k+ income range.
It seems that you are insinuating that anything done yourself is considered work. That just isn't the case for most people.
Let me give another example that involves less sweat.
Home decorating is something that can take MANY, MANY, MANY hours and days or months of mental focus. However, most women rather fancy picking out paint colors, lamps, trim paint, wall hangings, furniture patterns, rugs, accent walls, feng shui and whatever else. Why not just hire an interior decorator to do it all?
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Yeah, but how are you going to make that car last 20 years without having the last 5 of those years come with very high repair bills? (Or equivalently, very time consuming DIY work, to which my response is the same as before).
It really depends on the car and mileage. Most modern cars will run 250k+ with minimal repairs. For some, that's 20+ years of driving. Timing belts, water pumps, alternators, etc cost a little, but nothing compared to a car payment.
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There is a lot more to car maintenance than oil changes and tires. Look at the owner's manual.
If you skip out on that maintenance, I can virtually guarantee you that you will NOT get 20 years out of that car!
Like what? 10 seconds changing the air filter? LOL. Seriously, most modern cars are virtually maintenance free aside from replacing basic wear parts.
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Ok, as long as you have sinking funds for all the stuff I mentioned and don't mind the prospect of being unable to travel for a year or two even when something comes up that interests you or there is an important family event such as birth, wedding, death, etc.
Well personally, my family in spread out over a huge 50 mile radius....I could darn near ride my bicycle to the wedding.
That assumes you will live long enough to retire. You already mentioned being (I believe) 62 years old. That's a decent retirement age for someone in your generation.
Now suppose that, at age 30, you learned that you would die at age 55. Would you have done things differently than you actually did? (Heaven knows, if you plan to retire at age 62 and then die suddenly at age 55, you never get to reap that reward for which you were striving.
See, people of my generation are becoming increasingly more aware of the fact that we'll never be able to retire like people of your generation... so an increasing proportion of us are trying to enjoy our lives as best we can rather than slaving away for some retirement plan that y'all got but we'll never get.
This is the biggest cop out ever. The old, "What if I die" foolishness. The chances of you dying before you retire is not as great as some of "your generation" make it out to be. You can enjoy life while you work. In fact, the more you make, the more enjoyable your life can be.
I don't know where everyone gets off acting like those who work have 80 hour work weeks because that simply is not true. Most people do not have 80, or even 70, or even 60 hour work weeks. The fact is, if you live it up now, when you do get older, you will be a drain on society because you chose to play first, work later.
I swear I've mentioned this on these forums somewhere, but I think some of you need to go read the Grasshopper and the Ant a few more times.
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Originally Posted by jamiecta
some people could. 29 here and my house is currently planned to be paid off by the time I am 35. I could pay it off sooner, but I am not going to pay any more toward principal than I am currently with my interest rate vs what I have been getting in the market.
That being said, I'm not planning to retire anytime soon. I certainly plan to retire fairly early, but I am building a nest egg and don't mind working for now.
Have you only been making 20k this entire time? That's the point. Yah, people can pay off a house in their 20s and 30s...it's possible. There is no denying that. But they are NOT going to do it if they only earn $10 an hour.
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Originally Posted by rdflk
As for me I'm convinced the OP is on the gov dole. IF he weren't -- and it was rental income or all investment income -- why not just say so?
You say it would 'sidetrack' the conversation, and affect our reaction to your plan. Well we've commented on the plan NOT knowing your income, multiple times already. So how could it make any difference?
Actually it might HELP the discussion, because we'd be more informed. By not answering you're just showing that you're not interested in getting the best informed opinions, which you say you want.
You said the forum is public. You're anonymous here, so that's a specious argument.
-- Are you able-bodied? COULD you work full-time IF you wanted to?
-- Is your income any kind of government subsidy? BTW, a yes to that still doesn't say WHAT KIND gov income it is. So no one could steal or get in on this bright idea you seem to think you have.
Some pages back, someone came on here and said what he does...according to them. It was rather detailed, and I questioned it in a post.
No one seems to have read that one, and it was completely ignored by everyone else, even the OP. The OP didn't even acknowledge or deny. You know, if someone accused me of what that poster did, I would stand up and say how they were wrong. Nary a peep.
Well, reading this entire exchange has been extremely entertaining over the last 3 days. A few observations:
- eddiehaskell really seems to have his thoughts well laid out and together. Many of the items mentioned, such as catastrophes, he has addressed via insurance or planning. And in the event of the massive 6 figure catastrophe, it doesn't sound like he'd fare any worse than the rest of the posters
- It truly surprises me just how angry, irrational and jealous some are about the pursuit of a minimalist lifestyle
- The main opposition of OP seemed to engage in disingenuous dialogue and then become extremely frustrated when OP had tactful and truthful answers to the issues that were raised
- Sadly, I suspect that hypocrisy runs deep with many posters in this thread. The amount of billowing about how successful they are, how much they contribute to society and how much money they make leaves me a bit remorseful for them. At least some of them are deluding themselves into happiness...when in all reality the tone of their responses show that they aren't happy at all
Truly a great display of human nature has been put on here...the good and the bad.
ole eddie hasn't caluclated anything beyond scribbling some things on the back of an envelop and he is trying to survive 70-80 years of unknowns with little savings and marginal income by the seat of his pants at the start of his adult life...
retirees planning for only 1/2 that time and already having most of lifes awe craps behind them can't get it right most of the time and are under funded.
if you think that is well thought out you are wrong.
it is basically ready-fire-aim with cataracts..
Last edited by mathjak107; 01-01-2014 at 11:05 AM..
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