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It's possible, we only spend 400/mo on food with 4 in the family by buying specials and rarely going out. We cook most of our food. Where we live I can retire with kids on 30K/yr. Home.car paid for. low taxes and utilities. But I also have military healthcare. We are going minimalist, quit direct TV(Mostly garbage channels anyway) went free HDTV and occasionally buy a program series that we really like. Got rid of lan line, grow veggies in spring/summer and can them, have chickens for eggs, down to one good cell phone(no contracts) and one $15 card plan phone, I hate phones anyway, its a big scam. Don't have to buy charcoal or lighter fluid for barbeques, have plenty of woodland and leaves to burn and a wood stove to help bring winter utility costs down. Oh did I mention I can't see my neighbors! These city dwellers just don't have a clue. We have lived both urban and rural and our happiness lies in simplicity and freedom.
Will you be happy to see your children be content to live a poverty level life-style, too? Or walk out the door at 18 and never come back except for funerals? Coming from a family of farmers and having grown up on a farm, I've seen lots of both results. One of the biggest reasons that family farms disappear is because 1) the wife bolts because she gets sick of scrimping and saving and never having enough money and 2)the kids bolt because they're sick of living without things that their peers take for granted. One of the biggest reasons for rural poverty is the glorification of subsistence farming life-style which results in too many young people having no ambition besides getting enough money to get drunk/high, get laid, and do it again the next day. One of the biggest reasons that there are so many isolated elderly people in many rural areas of the country is because their kids have all escaped a life-style that they grew to hate as teens.
You think this kind of semi-poverty life-style, ahem -- "minimalist" life-style -- is just peachy-keen. Maybe your wife does, too -- and even the kids, for now. Enjoy it for however long it lasts because it's likely not to last forever.
Will you be happy to see your children be content to live a poverty level life-style, too? Or walk out the door at 18 and never come back except for funerals? Coming from a family of farmers and having grown up on a farm, I've seen lots of both results. One of the biggest reasons that family farms disappear is because 1) the wife bolts because she gets sick of scrimping and saving and never having enough money and 2)the kids bolt because they're sick of living without things that their peers take for granted. One of the biggest reasons for rural poverty is the glorification of subsistence farming life-style which results in too many young people having no ambition besides getting enough money to get drunk/high, get laid, and do it again the next day. One of the biggest reasons that there are so many isolated elderly people in many rural areas of the country is because their kids have all escaped a life-style that they grew to hate as teens.
You think this kind of semi-poverty life-style, ahem -- "minimalist" life-style -- is just peachy-keen. Maybe your wife does, too -- and even the kids, for now. Enjoy it for however long it lasts because it's likely not to last forever.
I believe saying: "Enjoy it for however long it lasts because it's likely not to last forever." is 100% totally unfounded fear mongering.
You gave one example, but what about the other side of the coin? What about parents that work 50 hrs/week and rarely have time for the children? The children feel alone and gravitate toward whoever will give them attention (often the wrong crowd). The parents are busy with careers and end up feeling like they are living with a stranger (their spouse). Perhaps they meet someone at work and it eventually leads to divorce. The kids now lose all stability in their life and fall into depression/alcohol/drug abuse and end up resenting their parents.
I don't think the above happens all that often, but still...
I believe that good parents will usually raise good kids. "Poverty level" is just a number. $20k to someone with extremely low expenses is totally different than $20k to someone with middle class bills.
I'd say it's certainly possible to raise well adjusted children via a lifestyle similar to brad4143's...perhaps even better kids on average.
Who is going to have a home paid off in their 20's or 30's?
When I buy my small, modest, inexpensive (approximately $45,000-65,000) home in Pittsburgh this year, I'll own it outright. All a single person (or two or three people, for that matter) needs is a 1000 SF home, and that's about the size I'm looking for. I'll have it paid off, paid in full. And I'm in my early 30s. Also, I make less than $30,000 a year, have no debt, and have about $90,000 in savings and investments currently. Even after I buy my house, I'll still have a cushion to fall back on. And even on my relatively low wage, I'll still be able to save money on a monthly basis.
All the OP needs to do is buy a small house in an affordable city (like he has been saying, at or under 1,000 SF), pay for it outright, and try to live car free if he can. He should live the lifestyle of a minimalist; that way, he won't spend money unnecessarily--because let's face it, most stuff people have is completely unnecessary. It seems he knows the difference between a need and a want, so that's already working in his favor. If he's truly frugal and understands the value of a dollar, and if he saves his money consistently and doesn't throw it away on restaurants, designer clothing, electronic devices, expensive vacations, etc., then he will build a healthy nest egg. If he has Obamacare, and if it doesn't cost him much at all, even better. If he gets sick, it won't break him.
I didn't read all of the 51 pages of replies but here's my answer: Don't even try it. You might do well this year, next year and the year after that, but no one can see too far into the future. What if there's runaway inflation? What if the economy collapses? When if you want a job, but you've been out of the job market so long that you have no marketable skills? In short, you don't have enough money.
Are you in the south like me? $400/month for 4 people sounds really good. Can I ask where you shop for food most often?
I have a lot of room to lower my food budget but it's hard to give up some of the junk food.
On that income level, you might qualify for assistance from some of the food banks in your area. That's something to look into.
Also, concerning utilities, if you don't already know this, try to find a house with gas utilities. They're cheaper than electric. To save money, keep your heat turned down to around 62 during the day, and about 58 at night--just layer up in blankets. You'll be warm, don't worry. Also, turn the temperature setting down on your hot water heater. (gas hot water heaters are preferable over electric in terms of economy)
Regarding electricity, obviously turn off your appliances and lights when not in use. Also, unplug the appliances you can when you're not using them. Get energy efficient bulbs. If a light fixture has sockets for four bulbs, for example, only screw in one; that will save you on electricity.
I have a lot of other tips on frugal living if you'd like to discuss them.
This guy is yanking your chain. I think it's some kind of social experiment. Someone outted Eddie in the Slickdeal forum where he posted a similar thread titled Retire in my 20s...live on $25k/year.Similar story, this time more assumed money. Same aversion to the source of the monies. It the CD forum it looks like he is now living the good life on less money.
Good for you.
And you want people to poke holes in your theory. Well the core of the theory, $20k of income (no taxes?) a year, is the biggest hole we can poke and you won't budge on providing ANY info other than it's a passive income source that's apparently adjusted for inflation. This income is so passive you don't seem to need to tend to it as you can travel the world for stretches at a time or just wake up at noon and sleep 12 hours a day. And you have selectively decided to not respond to anyone that questions your income source. My guess is 1-3MM in a TIPS ladder or something? That's OK. I understand privacy, but the heart of your question to "live the good life on $20k/yr - retire in 20s or 30s" and what we've learned is the good life is subjective. I think your social experiment has run its course.
This guy is yanking your chain. I think it's some kind of social experiment. Someone outted Eddie in the Slickdeal forum where he posted a similar thread titled Retire in my 20s...live on $25k/year.Similar story, this time more assumed money. Same aversion to the source of the monies. It the CD forum it looks like he is now living the good life on less money.
Good for you.
And you want people to poke holes in your theory. Well the core of the theory, $20k of income (no taxes?) a year, is the biggest hole we can poke and you won't budge on providing ANY info other than it's a passive income source that's apparently adjusted for inflation. This income is so passive you don't seem to need to tend to it as you can travel the world for stretches at a time or just wake up at noon and sleep 12 hours a day. And you have selectively decided to not respond to anyone that questions your income source. My guess is 1-3MM in a TIPS ladder or something? That's OK. I understand privacy, but the heart of your question to "live the good life on $20k/yr - retire in 20s or 30s" and what we've learned is the good life is subjective. I think your social experiment has run its course.
Yes. You mentioned this already. Everyone is free to read about this topic on Slickdeals too if they don't mind going through 40 or so pages containing much of the same stuff.
The heart if the question is - can one live well on $20k/year given their home and car is paid for?
I'm not sure why you are so interested in the "how" part. If one can't accept the premise provided in the OP, why participe in the debate and berade me for not answering personal questions? A simple "I don't want to discuss my finances" should suffice.
Are you kidding us? You ask us a question and then tell us our answers are wrong. Why would anyone keep responding to this.
Your answers aren't wrong per se. They just can't be used as a blanket to cover everyone. There have been 6-7 people now that have said they live on about the same amount of money. Do you dismiss what these people say? Do you believe are will face certain doom at soom point in the future? If so, tell us why. And please be as specific as possible.
You are welcome! Glad that you finally got signed up.
Ah, my bad. The 24 year old said he was a Vice President of something or other, so I did not think that the other post was about him. Well, that answers that.
First, I just want to say I was only implicating you specifically for the above comment. Other than that, I meant "you" in the general sense of all the posters in the thread. No way was I going to be able to go back and pick out individual posts! so that said, I'll answer your questions anyway.
Yes, that post confused me as well. I had to read it twice and go back and find the original posts, then it made sense. He was VP or something of a bank, and the post you referred to talked about how that type of person adds interest and penalties to loans and stuff like that.
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When you bought the house, were you by yourself living off of 20k a year?
Nope. I bought that with my first husband. We made about 65k combined. I'm less than half that now, but expenses have gone up considerably (taxes doubled, utilities have gone way up etc). I've had a lot happen to me since then which would be a whole other story. I'm not sure we know exactly how the OP got his house either.
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It's not difficult to pay for a car, even on 20k. My car is also owned. Unfortunately, it needs a new engine due to driving it 14,000 miles in a few months for a job. That kind of thing can happen, as well. And yes I most certainly did indeed keep up on maintenance. I hear ya on the salt/chemical crap they put on the roads. Just use sand for crying out loud.
Pets have the same status in my house.
I've been lucky with my cars and I do a lot of my own work. I also know people with more tools than I have for those times I get stuck, which helps a lot. I'd actually prefer replacing an engine over a quarter panel. It's hard to find someone to do rust work :-/ and yes, I'd need help for the engine!
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The thing is, if you skimp now, you will pay later. I think it would be cheaper to spend a little more now, keep your health better, than it would be to suffer from 20 or so years of eating cheap, terrible food. We can't always afford it, I get that...but if you can, you should.
The only time I bought clothes recently was when I first moved up here, (New England), from Florida. Florida's version of "cold winter clothes" won't hack it up here. So I went to Goodwill, as well, and stocked up on sweaters.
Totally agree on the food and I'm trying to fix that now. Our commercial food supply is HORRIBLE and I admit to a wicked sweet tooth. Luckily I'm not diabetic but I do have a thyroid issue. Others in the family do too and it is genetic, but diet and stress probably made it raise its head.
That shop was a godsend to me for winter clothes. I was able to get great lightweight clothes so I can stay active all year. I can keep my house cooler in winter and wear the base layers to work. Some of the best money I ever spent.
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I don't have kids. Unless you mean my fur kids and like I said, they come before me. They don't have the "latest and greatest". A paper bag, a couple of cardboard boxes, and the plastic ring from the milk jug keeps the cats entertained. The dogs? Just take 'em out for a walk, throw a cheap ball around, they are thrilled.
Latest and greatest...I don't have a cell phone. Well, I do, it's pay as you go...I am not going, so I dont pay, I don't use it, so I say I don't have one. It's in a drawer, not being used. I do not have an iPhone. I don't have an iPad. I have a laptop that I bought in 2009. Knock on wood, it's still going strong. I am still on Vista...the OS it came with. So, try again?
This was where I wasn't talking about you directly. my laptop is from 2008 and fingers crossed I'll get a couple more years from it. I'm a geek though, 20 years in IT. The iPhone has been great for one of my jobs and my business and when I go away for work I bring the ipad now. Again, I didn't pay all out of pocket for it, if I had I'd probably still be saving for it! Not a necessity but I do enjoy it and use it almost daily. Unfortunately there are things I need for my biz the ipad can't do, so I still need a computer.
TVs OTOH are 20+ years old. No VCR or DVD (except the one in the laptop). My exh bought me a simple stereo when he moved out. He had taken my 1980s one that I earned off a sales spiff and put it in the garage and I guess felt bad when he took all the house equipment with him. I really only play iPod music through it, which I could do through small speakers I picked for for $10 many years ago. I do require something in the car that will charge the phone and play through the speakers. It's so hard to drive around an unfamiliar city at 4:30 am with directions on paper. I never thought I'd like GPS but its been really handy for work (built into the phone)
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When I had a certain job down in Miami, I was able to save up a bit and get myself a DSLR. So my camera is....about three years old. But, I was also working probably about 50 hours a week at the time. Having said that, despite some beliefs, I LIKED my job. I enjoyed it. I didn't enjoy all of my co-workers, but the job? LOVED. IT.
I've had some jobs I really liked as well, even the FT ones. But I really really like making my own schedule more than anything. I once told a friend that if I ever have a bad day at work, I rarely have to go back there the next day unless I want to. That's liberating!
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That's great. And thus far, since that divorce, you seem to have not had to deal with any other types of set backs. Some people do. Some people have their shtf moments at least once or twice a year. It happens. That is why I continually say, telling people that they can do all of this and retire at 20k is not realistic. Some people don't have as many setbacks, some do. So let's be real here, and think about how much you would need saved up to be able to get through those setbacks, as well as the other money you are trying to save up. Let's seriously be real here. Again, looks good on paper....but as you have experienced, life does not go how we put it on paper, and anyone who denies that, is not living in reality.
Actually I've had a number of setbacks. This year alone had been horrendous with medical bills, plus my partner in crime (cat) had a respiratory issue that cost a fortune, and we never really got to the bottom of it. It cleared up after 8 weeks on meds. A follow up visit showed she didn't have a heart murmur after all, but did have high BP. She's now on meds for that, doing well, and needs a urinalysis next month to check on high protein levels. I messed up my SE taxes in 2010 and worked harder the next year to pay that off, then owe more the next year. Grrrrrr! So it hasn't been all rosy. The garage needs a roof which I hope can be done with help. House will be next and that will be hired out. Ouch.
My biggest setbacks however were those two guys I married lol
I bought a new car in late 87, when I was single. I started dating my first H the next year and never had money again while with him, despite a cheaper place shared with him. Too bad I was too young and stupid to figure it out! Then I did it again!! I've finally learned
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You don't have to work in a cubicle to make it. Where do people get the idea that the only viable job out there is in some office cubicle?
Figure of speech......
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Which is exactly magicjak's point in many posts. If you have to come out of "retirement" to work because you need more money, then you didn't plan your retirement correctly. That has been precisely magicjak's point. And, it's been my point.
But if you do something you like, on YOUR terms, it's just part of the fun
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I'm not "hostile", I deal with reality. I live in reality. Again, the point is, and has been, the entire time, this is not feasible for the average person. You sit here and write this lengthy post making a whole hell of a lot of assumptions about my life. You just assumed, you never asked. That negates pretty much your entire argument from beginning to end. You know nothing about me. You have NO idea.
Well, you kind of assumed I meant you specifically for the entire lengthy post, and I didn't.
Trust me, if I could figure out how to do what he's doing, I would. And I'm working on it. I wouldn't be bored, and if I was, there are tons of volunteer opportunities out there. Walk dogs at a shelter. Help at a stable. Trash cleanup in a forest. Cat rescue.
Btw thanks for the welcome
Last edited by WouldLoveTo; 01-01-2014 at 07:31 PM..
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Glad that you finally got signed up.
