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Old 03-21-2014, 05:30 PM
 
1,679 posts, read 3,007,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
ny tax law is very complex but i know so far we can gift up to a certain amount and it is not counted as part of the 2 million at death. i am not really up on that part . in fact one of the reasons we did go to see an estate attorney two weeks ago is because i rather have them take care of this end.

i do know there is a bill about to be signed to end that tax free gifting.

the only problem with these trusts is they do limit the principal to the surviving spouse . you really need to be sure your spouse will not need it.

ours is the higher of 5% of the principal or all the income. but she does not have to throw the switch to put it in effect if she feels she needs the money , that is the beauty of the discretionary trust we did.

we each have provisions in our wills for throwing that switch.
But you aren't even avoiding all of NY estate tax. If you rented a place in FL for 500$ a month you would probably save overall.

You only need to say you live there >180 days a year.

Your plan seems kind of pointless
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:39 PM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,937,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hartford_renter View Post
But you aren't even avoiding all of NY estate tax. If you rented a place in FL for 500$ a month you would probably save overall.

You only need to say you live there >180 days a year.

Your plan seems kind of pointless
Say or actually live there. Isn't one fraud?
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:41 PM
 
106,059 posts, read 108,015,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hartford_renter View Post
But you aren't even avoiding all of NY estate tax. If you rented a place in FL for 500$ a month you would probably save overall.

You only need to say you live there >180 days a year.

Your plan seems kind of pointless
that is fraud...... why am i not surprised.

all they need to do is look at your cell phone ,ezee pass and credit card transactions and they know where you are if audited. they did it to so many people we knew when we had the 2ND home in PA.

last thing i want in retirement is the bills of a 2nd place.
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Old 03-21-2014, 06:08 PM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,937,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
that is fraud...... why am i not surprised.

all they need to do is look at your cell phone ,ezee pass and credit card transactions and they know where you are if audited. they did it to so many people we knew when we had the 2ND home in PA.

last thing i want in retirement is the bills of a 2nd place.
Or the legal fees.
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Old 03-21-2014, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Southlake. Don't judge me.
2,885 posts, read 4,630,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hartford_renter View Post
But you aren't even avoiding all of NY estate tax. If you rented a place in FL for 500$ a month you would probably save overall.

You only need to say you live there >180 days a year.

Your plan seems kind of pointless
Actually, even if he was a Florida resident, certain property held in NY state could very well be subject to NY state death taxes, in addition to having to go through probate there ("ancillary probate" and all).

A "credit shelter" trust of some sort is a very common part of estate planning for anyone with net worth approaching or exceeding their state (or federal) lifetime exemption. mathjak's CS trust is a little different from the common set up (usually the trust allows distributions to spouse for "health, education, maintenance and support", so spouse could be trustee. A third party co-trustee may be established as well to allow for discretionary distributions in excess of that ascertainable standard).

Others have commented on the issue of fraud.

Disclaimer - I don't know nuttin' about nuttin'. Talk to real attorneys. My post won't save you from the IRS.
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:04 PM
 
1,679 posts, read 3,007,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synchronicity View Post
Actually, even if he was a Florida resident, certain property held in NY state could very well be subject to NY state death taxes, in addition to having to go through probate there ("ancillary probate" and all).

A "credit shelter" trust of some sort is a very common part of estate planning for anyone with net worth approaching or exceeding their state (or federal) lifetime exemption. mathjak's CS trust is a little different from the common set up (usually the trust allows distributions to spouse for "health, education, maintenance and support", so spouse could be trustee. A third party co-trustee may be established as well to allow for discretionary distributions in excess of that ascertainable standard).

Others have commented on the issue of fraud.

Disclaimer - I don't know nuttin' about nuttin'. Talk to real attorneys. My post won't save you from the IRS.
Then sell your house in NY and just rent in NY

Don't use a credit card

I think your exaggerating here the IRS isn't the NSA they aren't going to demand your cell phone records. I would talk to an attorney.
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:06 PM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,937,970 times
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Isn't personal integrity still alive in some of us?
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Southlake. Don't judge me.
2,885 posts, read 4,630,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hartford_renter View Post
Then sell your house in NY and just rent in NY

Don't use a credit card

I think your exaggerating here the IRS isn't the NSA they aren't going to demand your cell phone records. I would talk to an attorney.
mathjak already has spoken with an attorney. He's arranging his affairs so as to manage his estate tax liability and is probably trying to manage his income tax liability as well.

Also, there are things more important in life than taxes. From an income tax perspective, maybe mathjak doesn't overly mind paying some percentage in NY taxes to help support the state he lives in and enjoys. I know, crazy concept.

On the estate tax front, it's looking like mathjak may not have to worry about state death taxes if he and his wife can stay alive and kicking for at least a few more years. Look here:

http://www.mcguirewoods.com/news-res..._tax_chart.pdf

If you scroll down to NY, you'll see that although they are trying to institute a gift tax, it also appears that they are in the process of phasing in increases in the estate tax exemption to essentially have it sync up closely with the federal estate tax in terms of lifetime exemption amount. So if our poster friend has under 10 mil of net worth, he shouldn't have to worry about estate taxation in NY or federally.

I think this dead horse has been beaten enough, but suffice to say that knowledge of various tax issues is one reason to have a financial advisor beyond just "investing assets". In general terms, if the person can bring expertise to the table that can assist you in ways that more than offset his/her fee (and assuming their fee is comparable to others with similar expertise), then why not?
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Old 03-22-2014, 02:54 AM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,937,970 times
Reputation: 14419
Quote:
Originally Posted by synchronicity View Post
mathjak already has spoken with an attorney. He's arranging his affairs so as to manage his estate tax liability and is probably trying to manage his income tax liability as well.

Also, there are things more important in life than taxes. From an income tax perspective, maybe mathjak doesn't overly mind paying some percentage in NY taxes to help support the state he lives in and enjoys. I know, crazy concept.

On the estate tax front, it's looking like mathjak may not have to worry about state death taxes if he and his wife can stay alive and kicking for at least a few more years. Look here:

http://www.mcguirewoods.com/news-res..._tax_chart.pdf

If you scroll down to NY, you'll see that although they are trying to institute a gift tax, it also appears that they are in the process of phasing in increases in the estate tax exemption to essentially have it sync up closely with the federal estate tax in terms of lifetime exemption amount. So if our poster friend has under 10 mil of net worth, he shouldn't have to worry about estate taxation in NY or federally.

I think this dead horse has been beaten enough, but suffice to say that knowledge of various tax issues is one reason to have a financial advisor beyond just "investing assets". In general terms, if the person can bring expertise to the table that can assist you in ways that more than offset his/her fee (and assuming their fee is comparable to others with similar expertise), then why not?
Bada Bing! $5k to save $150k.
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Old 03-22-2014, 02:59 AM
 
106,059 posts, read 108,015,953 times
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as most here know we already had planned to retire in PA.

We bought a house there 7 years ago and thought we would love the more rural un-city like life since i enjoy hunting and fishing.

well 5 years into part time life we realized who cares if it is cheaper. no way do we want to retire here. everything we would want as we age was lacking. so we sold two years ago.

no public transportation if you couldn't drive , limited medical specialists, not much to do one you exhausted everything locally , the winters were long and icy, everything was 15 minutes away if you needed milk, limited medical facilities , the list went on and on once we experienced life there and compared to to here..

all in all we realized while expensive we have everything we would ever want right here in nyc including our family.

endless things to do year round was right here . with nothing but time in retirement filling all that time is important to us.

being we are investment property owners in nyc although we rent we could never really divorce ourselves from ny taxes.

we can't sell out either for reasons i don't want to bother going into here.

we would end up needing to do two wills ,one in each state so that would be expensive to have done right.

we already had two experiences with it costing us loads of dough to deal with 2 wills that had defects in them so i a am a big believer in seeing an estate attorney for all this stuff.

the other issue about lying and the one that gets folks caught most of the time is lying about where your primary home is will also be insurance fraud.

the state of PA and the auto insurers go whole hog together against phoney residents all the time.

why?


because you have to insure your car where it is primarly garaged .

when you live in a state like PA where minimum insurance requirements are low and get in an accident in ny federal law says the state of PA and insurer have to share the burdeon of elevating you to the minimum requirement of the state you are driving in on their dime.

that means in our case PA and the insurer would have to pay for any claim up to the ny minimum liability coverage requirement for any accident in ny over and above what i am covered for in pa .

many states take insurance fraud very seriously when you are in an accident in another state to see if you really are a resident of their state.

if asked , the burdeon of proof falls on you to provide the evidence as to where you live not them. you need to show cell phone use , credit cards , ezee pass , receipts ,bank transactions etc as to where you actually live most of the time. they do not have to prove a thing ,you do.


i think not only does hartford have to do his homework on tax laws and the amt but he needs to brush up on his criminal laws too.

Last edited by mathjak107; 03-22-2014 at 04:00 AM..
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