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Old 05-14-2014, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
29,627 posts, read 34,093,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post

But the inherent mistrust of someone you consider partnering with? Where the heck did that come from? Most couples I know work like teams, not competitors.
That's the part that a lot of the guys who come over here from the Angry Dude sites seem to forget; they seem to view women in general as annoyances that they have to put up with to get laid. A good relationship works like a team: you want to share with each other; you want to be generous with each other; you want to spend time with each other; you want to have sex with each other. It shouldn't be a power struggle.

 
Old 05-14-2014, 11:32 AM
 
3,201 posts, read 4,388,117 times
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fascinating...
 
Old 05-14-2014, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Canada
11,755 posts, read 11,943,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
That's the part that sickens me. I mean, there are times pre nups make sense, we've covered a bunch of those, but it is more for protection of offspring and family than oneself... that seems responsible.

But the inherent mistrust of someone you consider partnering with? Where the heck did that come from? Most couples I know work like teams, not competitors.
From the basement dwellers who fear losing their Xbox in a divorce? That would imply they could find someone to marry in the first place.

I joke, sort of. IRL I don't see this fear and mistrust of someone you love and have committed to in any of the relationships I've ever known.

When my ex and I divorced, we had to provide a list of all assets we came into the marriage with (his was 0) and also a list of what assets and debts were accumulated during the marriage. What I brought into the marriage was subtracted off the top and then the assets and liabilities divided between us. A pre-nup wouldn't have changed any of that.
 
Old 05-14-2014, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,838,709 times
Reputation: 18712
Men should be very very careful when they marry. Family courts sometimes throw out the prenup. The wife claims she signed under duress. Men should not count on any prenup to protect them in family court.

Some of you folks are quite correct. You know what marriage should be. The reality is that it often isn't. People get bored with their spouse, they find someone they like better, or their spouse starts treating them like dirt. Obviously, circumstances have changed that takes two people from the bliss of their wedding day to their day in divorce court.
 
Old 05-14-2014, 11:51 AM
 
3,588 posts, read 5,704,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
That's the part that sickens me. I mean, there are times pre nups make sense, we've covered a bunch of those, but it is more for protection of offspring and family than oneself... that seems responsible.

But the inherent mistrust of someone you consider partnering with? Where the heck did that come from? Most couples I know work like teams, not competitors.
I think the main thing a woman needs to fear from a pre-nup is that she is suddenly being presented with irrefutable evidence of what her man REALLY thinks of her. How can a man say he truly loves a woman while running through the marriage clutching his material possessions going, "MINE! MINE!" That's love??? How would he like it if his woman felt this way about HIM?

So a man marries a woman at the height of her physical attractiveness and desirability...takes her off the market as it were...and then after the stress and strain of a rocky marriage, childbearing, childrearing being neglected and unloved in a marriage, aging.. have done their worst to her looks, he opens the gate, escorts her out, chiding, "Well it was fun while it lasted...I will leave you pick over the slimmest of pickings in the dating pool" Oh, and you're going to have seriously down-size your lifestyle, while I skip merrily off to go live high off the hog. Sorry... marriage made me even stronger, and left you, weaker.
 
Old 05-14-2014, 12:21 PM
 
23 posts, read 39,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
You have a twisted sense of "marrying up". If woman decides to stay home more (either full time, part time, or takes a profession with more flexibility and less pay) to be the primary caregiver to the children and therefore earn less than her husband, that doesn't mean that she married up.

A friend is a RN and her husband is a DR. He earns more than she does by a bit... they met at 20 in college and have been together since. They were both broke college students and still in school (grad school) when they married. No one would say she "married up" as the salary differential happened a decade later.

Should he have asked for a pre nup? That would be ridiculous.
A twisted sense? I don't know what rock you've been living under, but money separates lifestyles. And marrying someone with more than you is obviously marrying up. Taking an easier 'career' and staying on the couch does not entitle someone to live off of the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersParkGuy View Post
I am a man, but I am a man who has worked in family law, so I have seen how a lot of this plays out first hand.

First of all, only a minority of men even seek full custody of their children.

Most men want custody of their children. "Seeking" custody is going through a never ending roadblock put in place by the sexist court system full of feminist influenced submissive males who try their best to redistribute wealth from man to woman


Even fewer seek physical placement. Like a lot of people, you conflate custody, which is a legal status, with physical placement, which is a housing situation. They are not the same thing.

Now, you're (like most females) just trying to create more division and categories to paint a stereotypical of men not wanting their children.

Second, spousal maintenance (commonly called "alimony") is usually temporary and quite limited in scope. To say it entitles women to men's income is a gross exaggeration. The only reason women get maintenance at all is because in most cases, it is the women who forgoes her career and/or education to take care of the house, care for the children, etc.

It is not even close to an exaggeration and much of it is until the female gets a job. Most are going to sit around and live off of a man if the broken court system allows it.


These are all form of unpaid labor that women perform in marriages. It would be obscene for a woman to do so much work for free, often for decades, only to be left destitute after the marriage fails. And the fact is, in the majority of cases, it is the women who see their standard of living decline after divorce, not men.

Taking care of your own kids is NOT "unpaid labor." Maintaining your living environment is not "unpaid labor." You're going to have to keep your place clean wherever you live. And again, you're painting a stereotypical image of the female doing EVERYTHING around the house when that is not the case of today.

You're part of the reason this society cannot move forward and causing men to reject marriage in growing numbers. You refuse to adjust the laws in a society where females have equal opportunity and equal pay. This corrupted line of thought will be the very end of marriage.



Actually, women are now the primary breadwinners in 40% of households, not 15%.

Breadwinner Moms | Pew Research Center
Actually no, they are only 15% of the breadwinners. They add in women with no man to paint a picture of men leaning on women, when families are still leaning on the man. The article details it clearly. Females who have a man only make up 15%. Your inflated and inaccurate percentage comes from lumping in females with no man.
 
Old 05-14-2014, 12:26 PM
 
23 posts, read 39,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle View Post
Not only that, but it paints a marriage as an adversarial arrangement. While in some cases there is a need to protect assets in case of a divorce, going into a marriage viewing one's spouse as a a potential enemy who is out to bleed you dry doesn't seem to bode well for a happy, trusting partnership.
No one is viewing anyone as the enemy. You should not shame men into avoiding taking precaution against something that is 50% likely to happen (divorce and losing assets to someone of lesser income).

Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
That's the part that sickens me. I mean, there are times pre nups make sense, we've covered a bunch of those, but it is more for protection of offspring and family than oneself... that seems responsible.

But the inherent mistrust of someone you consider partnering with? Where the heck did that come from? Most couples I know work like teams, not competitors.
Where did it come from? It came from stories upon stories of one sided court proceedings where one gender is 70% likely to walk out on a marriage AND walking out with more than they came with. Playing the "mistrust" card is like saying "why wear a seat belt in the car? Don't you trust my driving skills?" People always need to take precaution. It's the smart thing to do.
 
Old 05-14-2014, 12:28 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,940 posts, read 36,716,568 times
Reputation: 40634
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim71new View Post
A twisted sense? I don't know what rock you've been living under, but money separates lifestyles. And marrying someone with more than you is obviously marrying up. Taking an easier 'career' and staying on the couch does not entitle someone to live off of the other.

Who said anything about easier? Or staying on the couch? Or living off of someone else?

Not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim71new View Post
Where did it come from? It came from stories upon stories of one sided court proceedings where one gender is 70% likely to walk out on a marriage AND walking out with more than they came with.
Stories being the operative word.

And 70%? It seems you're one of the confused people that equates filing with making the decision to divorce. Lots of break downs in your thought processes.

Best for you (and women, and society) to just not marry and make it a non issue.
 
Old 05-14-2014, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Arizona
3,763 posts, read 6,674,440 times
Reputation: 2396
Here's why I would want a prenup:

1. Look at the world around you. Divorce rates are high because people break up over superficial bs and the wife ends taking half the mans crap because the court system is one sided towards the woman. You have kids...good luck with the male getting visitation.
2. We didn't fall in love because of the nice car, jewelry, or whatever I have. If that was your reason then it will become clear in the prenup, or likely before it.
3. Mass media also plays this huge role in making us believe that happiness is being wealthy and the man doing all the work.
4. If I do have nice things I can promise you I worked by booty off to get them and I am going to protect them.
 
Old 05-14-2014, 12:28 PM
 
23 posts, read 39,743 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
This is such a great point! Your working fewer hours is enabling him to move ahead in his career, for the benefit of both of you. Now that's teamwork!
I know right? Maybe she should work 0 hours and let him work even more in his career. She's such a great team player
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