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I was specially addressing your comments towards executors, wills and the distribution of assets post death
We're really not talking post death here. I was addressing the issue which is pre death, and those sisters could be looking at abuse of POA. I'm not a lawyer but I think that I would want to consult with one. Money has a way to make people do very very bad things. What happens if these sisters blow or siphon off this woman's estate and now she has no money to pay for her care?
Were talking about two sisters who have POA and are already raiding the finances of a living sick person who simply does not have the mental capacity to make the RIGHT financial or any decision for their own well being.
I guess I'm not sure if you're saying well since the sisters have POA it's a done deal. Nobody can do anything
We're really not talking post death here. I was addressing the issue which is pre death, and those sisters could be looking at abuse of POA. I'm not a lawyer but I think that I would want to consult with one. Money has a way to make people do very very bad things. What happens if these sisters blow or siphon off this woman's estate and now she has no money to pay for her care?
Were talking about two sisters who have POA and are already raiding the finances of a living sick person who simply does not have the mental capacity to make the RIGHT financial or any decision for their own well being.
I guess I'm not sure if you're saying well since the sisters have POA it's a done deal. Nobody can do anything
You did mention after death
Quote:
Now once she passes away the executor of the estate has to follow the directions of the will/living trust and disburse the assets as directed
This is not correct for the reasons I mentioned already.
If the money is gone it may be gone no matter if there was wrong doing or not. There could be legal action taken but we don't know if there is any wrong doing as of yet. We have a wife of a child who presumes wrong doing. Just because what's happening is something you don't lie doesn't mean it's wrong or illegal. Your assumption they are raiding anything is an assumption and not based in actual facts
Another issue may be that Medicaid has a 5 year look back at all assets of the individual. They will see that the IRA was cashed out and want to know where the money went (it's a moot point that the IRA might have been protected from the asset pool if it was not cashed, as some assets (and I don't remember whether or not an IRA is one of them) are not included in the asset pool). Meaning that Medicaid may reject a claim for care if that money is not returned to pay for ongoing care before Medicaid kicks in.
This is not correct for the reasons I mentioned already.
If the money is gone it may be gone no matter if there was wrong doing or not. There could be legal action taken but we don't know if there is any wrong doing as of yet. We have a wife of a child who presumes wrong doing. Just because what's happening is something you don't lie doesn't mean it's wrong or illegal. Your assumption they are raiding anything is an assumption and not based in actual facts
After death whoever is the executor of the will disburses the assets and settles the estates liabilities. We don't have all the facts from OP, but its not even a matter of liking it or not liking it. To me the question would be WHY are you disbursing someone elses IRA while they are alive? POA does not mean you can arbitrarily do as you please.
When I mentioned after death it was with the understanding that the decisions are made after the person is deceased. While alive the POA is designed to make correct decisions for a incapacitated person welfare and well being. It's their best interest not the POA holders interest
Last edited by Electrician4you; 11-08-2014 at 06:03 PM..
Another issue may be that Medicaid has a 5 year look back at all assets of the individual. They will see that the IRA was cashed out and want to know where the money went (it's a moot point that the IRA might have been protected from the asset pool if it was not cashed, as some assets (and I don't remember whether or not an IRA is one of them) are not included in the asset pool). Meaning that Medicaid may reject a claim for care if that money is not returned to pay for ongoing care before Medicaid kicks in.
It's possible that the mistaken 'motive' of the sisters is to reduce the MIL's assets so that she qualifies for Medicaid, but, as you indicated, the 5-year look-back period will likely preclude that.
Optionally, the continuing expenses of the MIL's care may require the IRA funds, which needed to be liquidated by her POA/s, in order to access those funds. My guess is that the sisters have pretty much assumed responsibility for the MIL's care and are at a point where her other liquid assets are already pretty much spent-down (?). (I also suspect that the OP's husband otherwise had little real involvement or any direct responsibility for his mother's care ... which may be why he was not included as a POA (?)
Of course, as others have suggested, they may simply be using their POA to drain the MIL's accounts for their own benefit ... but, I suspect there is more going on here than the OP has explained.
It's possible that the mistaken 'motive' of the sisters is to reduce the MIL's assets so that she qualifies for Medicaid, but, as you indicated, the 5-year look-back period will likely preclude that.
Optionally, the continuing expenses of the MIL's care may require the IRA funds, which needed to be liquidated by her POA/s, in order to access those funds. My guess is that the sisters have pretty much assumed responsibility for the MIL's care and are at a point where her other liquid assets are already pretty much spent-down (?). (I also suspect that the OP's husband otherwise had little real involvement or any direct responsibility for his mother's care ... which may be why he was not included as a POA (?)
Of course, as others have suggested, they may simply be using their POA to drain the MIL's accounts for their own benefit ... but, I suspect there is more going on here than the OP has explained.
Exactly. None of us really know why the sisters drained or moved the funds. But OP did say they they "gave" each other 1/2 the funds.
OP needs to do whatever she needs to do to get the sisters in court to explain their actions. there may be a good reason, but most likely not. Withdrawing the IRA all at once... wouldn't there be tax implications and penalties if withdrawn all at once?
OP... your SIL's may have committed senior financial abuse. Get a lawyer or contact a social service agency to investigate. If they find any wrongdoing, I'm sure a judge would void the POA and probably assign conservatorship to someone else (someone please correct me if conservatorship is incorrect).
After death whoever is the executor of the will disburses the assets and settles the estates liabilities. We don't have all the facts from OP, but its not even a matter of liking it or not liking it. To me the question would be WHY are you disbursing someone elses IRA while they are alive? POA does not mean you can arbitrarily do as you please.
When I mentioned after death it was with the understanding that the decisions are made after the person is deceased. While alive the POA is designed to make correct decisions for a incapacitated person welfare and well being. It's their best interest not the POA holders interest
You are still incorrect about how things are handled after death. You have been wrong the entire thread. You ca also have poa and not be incapacitated
OP needs to do whatever she needs to do to get the sisters in court to explain their actions. there may be a good reason, but most likely not. Withdrawing the IRA all at once... wouldn't there be tax implications and penalties if withdrawn all at once?
OP... your SIL's may have committed senior financial abuse. Get a lawyer or contact a social service agency to investigate. If they find any wrongdoing, I'm sure a judge would void the POA and probably assign conservatorship to someone else (someone please correct me if conservatorship is incorrect).
It's not the op business to do anything with court and would have no legal basis. Her husband at best may have something. They would be winding down the assets on purpose
You are still incorrect about how things are handled after death. You have been wrong the entire thread. You ca also have poa and not be incapacitated
Seems like you want to bring up every type of POA scenario. You can give POA to someone to handle a limited unlimited broad or capacity as you see fit. There are many different scenarios. Say selling a car on your behalf. Or a house if you're say out of the country or handling your finances like paying your bills while you're on vacation. Incapacitated or not. I wasn't trying to list every scenario and description of POA.
But even if they can do as they please ( legally) because of the POA. The agent is TRUSTED to do the best for the principal. That's why you give someone POA. Giving somene power of attorney can be a dangerous thing. It's not something you give to just anyone. You are placing a incredible amount iof trust in that person.
How sad is it that in some cases the people you trust with the most important decisions are sometimes the ones who do the most damage.
I know I said the POA holder can't do as they please. Well that was meant more of a moral can't do as they please. So I'll retract that statement. Legally yes they can do whatever they want but there is such thing as power of attorney abuse. And there have been many cases where children and relatives have used power of attorney to enrich themselves and completely drain the accounts of the very people that they were supposedly trusted to protect.
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( legally) because of the POA. The agent is TRUSTED to do the best for the principal. That's why you give someone POA. Giving somene power of attorney can be a dangerous thing. It's not something you give to just anyone. You are placing a incredible amount iof trust in that person. 
