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Old 03-04-2015, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,057 posts, read 16,066,811 times
Reputation: 12630

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
Car, transportation for 200/mo? No way.
Try 5x that amount.

Health insurance?
See, that's the problem. You think you NEED a BMW. I drive about 30,000 miles a year, which is way more than the average person needs to drive. Lots of people drive only a few thousand miles a year, which is more realistic. My car payment and insurance run about $450/mo, gas is another $200. Certainly that's more than $200/mo, but I'm also driving a brand-new car, have full coverage with high policy limits, and drive a lot. Repairs and maintenance certainly do cost something, but it's very little. The car is maybe eight months old at this point. I've thus far paid nothing for anything. Free maintenance for the first 25k.
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Old 03-04-2015, 11:49 AM
 
12,704 posts, read 9,961,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
See, that's the problem. You think you NEED a BMW. I drive about 30,000 miles a year, which is way more than the average person needs to drive. Lots of people drive only a few thousand miles a year, which is more realistic. My car payment and insurance run about $450/mo, gas is another $200. Certainly that's more than $200/mo, but I'm also driving a brand-new car, have full coverage with high policy limits, and drive a lot. Repairs and maintenance certainly do cost something, but it's very little. The car is maybe eight months old at this point. I've thus far paid nothing for anything. Free maintenance for the first 25k.
The car payment is not a cost - only the interest and depreciation portion of it.
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Old 03-04-2015, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,448 posts, read 3,755,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
See, that's the problem. You think you NEED a BMW. I drive about 30,000 miles a year, which is way more than the average person needs to drive. Lots of people drive only a few thousand miles a year, which is more realistic. My car payment and insurance run about $450/mo, gas is another $200. Certainly that's more than $200/mo, but I'm also driving a brand-new car, have full coverage with high policy limits, and drive a lot. Repairs and maintenance certainly do cost something, but it's very little. The car is maybe eight months old at this point. I've thus far paid nothing for anything. Free maintenance for the first 25k.
One of my cars is a 1988 Chevy Blazer. It costs me more or less 100 a month to operate when I average repairs/maintenance out over 12 months. I spend about 135 or so on gas per month but I could keep that to under 100 if I was more judicious with my driving.
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Old 03-04-2015, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,057 posts, read 16,066,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
The car payment is not a cost - only the interest and depreciation portion of it.
Irrelevant since most of us operate on a cash basis.
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Old 03-04-2015, 03:33 PM
 
Location: NNJ
9,500 posts, read 5,356,621 times
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My viewpoint.

Living wage == cost of basic necessities to maintain a standard work week (for the fully-employed).

If work requires transportation, then yes.
If work requires cell phone, then yes.
otherwise.. no.

I don't believe TV and internet access (unless required for work) fall under the premise of living wage.

I don't believe the concept of living wage can survive unless you prevent a fully-employed person from receiving welfare. The whole point is that a living wage can sustain an individual sans welfare.
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Old 03-04-2015, 03:33 PM
 
12,704 posts, read 9,961,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Irrelevant since most of us operate on a cash basis.
Ok, so then by this logic, if you pay cash for the car, the monthly cost is the entire purchase price for the first month, and then zero afterwards. Doesn't really make much sense.
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Old 03-04-2015, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,057 posts, read 16,066,811 times
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Yup, although usually you're talking about yearly. Makes perfect sense. It can be misleading if you're simply looking at a short time frame. Of course, so is depression. If you're talking some higher end models they can depreciate $5,000-$10,000 in the first month.
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Old 03-04-2015, 04:44 PM
 
12,704 posts, read 9,961,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Yup, although usually you're talking about yearly. Makes perfect sense. It can be misleading if you're simply looking at a short time frame. Of course, so is depression. If you're talking some higher end models they can depreciate $5,000-$10,000 in the first month.
Hmmmm, I had not looked at it that way before, but fair point. It's still arbitrary to refer to one's monthly payment for the purpose of a discussion of what a reasonable cost is. By your accounting, a $1000/month is perfectly reasonable for a modest car - just make the loan really short! No BMW needed!

or use a 30-year mortgage to pay for the car and its monthly cost is very low - you can get a brand new car for the cost of a beater!

Do you see what the problem is with this way of thinking?
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,057 posts, read 16,066,811 times
Reputation: 12630
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
Hmmmm, I had not looked at it that way before, but fair point. It's still arbitrary to refer to one's monthly payment for the purpose of a discussion of what a reasonable cost is. By your accounting, a $1000/month is perfectly reasonable for a modest car - just make the loan really short! No BMW needed!

or use a 30-year mortgage to pay for the car and its monthly cost is very low - you can get a brand new car for the cost of a beater!

Do you see what the problem is with this way of thinking?
Sure. I've said many times I did something similar. Back when I was looking at graduate/law school in a couple years and my car was totaled, I bought a reasonably priced new car (this was right after cash for clunkers, so the used market was even worse than it is today). My payments on my Mazda3 were higher than the lease would have been on a BMW 5-series, although not $1000/mo.

I don't really see it as problematic because I don't look at in isolation. If you were to tell me I drive a brand-new BMW M5 and my cost per month is only $500/mo (insurance + gas) because I paid $90,000 cash two months ago, then it's true. Your monthly cost is only $500. There's a big but there, over course.
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Old 03-04-2015, 08:24 PM
 
12,704 posts, read 9,961,918 times
Reputation: 9515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Sure. I've said many times I did something similar. Back when I was looking at graduate/law school in a couple years and my car was totaled, I bought a reasonably priced new car (this was right after cash for clunkers, so the used market was even worse than it is today). My payments on my Mazda3 were higher than the lease would have been on a BMW 5-series, although not $1000/mo.

I don't really see it as problematic because I don't look at in isolation. If you were to tell me I drive a brand-new BMW M5 and my cost per month is only $500/mo (insurance + gas) because I paid $90,000 cash two months ago, then it's true. Your monthly cost is only $500. There's a big but there, over course.
So here's where it gets really interesting.

Say you (as I do) have enough stock that you could sell the stock and buy a new car outright, but if you don't sell the stock there is no way you could possibly afford to make payments (even small ones) if you financed it. What do you then do? Do you pay cash, in order to "afford" it, or do you finance?

My answer right now is to not own a car at all, because I could not keep up with depreciation.
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