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Old 01-08-2015, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Keosauqua, Iowa
9,164 posts, read 16,566,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Then you should have quoted the OP instead tossing out a comment to nobody in particular.
It's generally accepted that if nobody is quoted the post is in response to the OP.
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:16 AM
 
20,309 posts, read 16,477,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Then you should have quoted the OP instead tossing out a comment to nobody in particular.
It's OP's thread, if she was talking to you she would have quoted your post. I knew she wasn't talking to you, and so did most of us probably.
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Lynn, MA
325 posts, read 401,023 times
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This is technically fraud BTW. Almost impossible to prove though, if you do it right.

You could for example do an end around by putting your entire paycheck towards your student loan and living off your credit card. It would be a way of transferring debt to your card with no provable way to tie it to your student loans.

Congress has made private loans impossible to discharge so this might be an option, and IMO, not an entirely unethical one if you have no other choices. I'm all for being honest and on the up and up with your money, but you need to live your life. And it's not like the financial companies who pushed to enslave people for life through student loans were ethical either.
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:09 AM
 
2,303 posts, read 2,249,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Oh really.

I did not "pay off" my student loans with credit cards, I still have a sizable student loan balance. I did not directly use credit cards to make student loan payments, I did so indirectly by taking cash advances and then using the cash to make student loan payments. Actually I probably even did that indirectly by taking advantage of the fungability of money - I used the money in my paycheck to make the student loan payments, while the cash advances allowed me to eat despite my depleted bank account.

Who is going to prevent me from discharging the (yet unpaid) credit card debt in bankruptcy?
Probably the bankruptcy judge. Just a guess.
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:09 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 21,952,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duster1979 View Post
There's no call to blame Jimmy Carter, there's actually been very little demand for liberal arts graduates at any time since the career model of a college graduate changed from learning things like history, philosophy, and critical thinking in college and learning career skills as an apprentice to learning career skills as part of the college curriculum well over 100 years ago.



I disagree. My degree is in Finance, but I spent many years working in retail management and industrial sales before going to work in the financial services industry.

Frankly, the shelf life of a liberal arts degree is more like about five minutes unless you plan to go to work for a family business or go into business for yourself.

My degree was intended to get me into law school so five minutes was quite sufficient. What i did not expect was the glut of un(der)employed law graduates which made the skyroocketing cost of law school financially dubious.
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:11 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 21,952,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeo123 View Post
Probably the bankruptcy judge. Just a guess.

How is the judge going to sort out the portion of credit card debt attributable to the student loan debt? Is the CC creditor going to challenge discharge? Is there a number cruncher who will methodically go through the payment histories of each debt looking for connections?
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:41 AM
 
3,862 posts, read 2,715,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
How is the judge going to sort out the portion of credit card debt attributable to the student loan debt? Is the CC creditor going to challenge discharge? Is there a number cruncher who will methodically go through the payment histories of each debt looking for connections?
Actually, they do go back several months to see if there was any intended fraud, like cash advances. Also, some credit grantors, like Sears, will look to see if there were any hard goods purchases that could be repossessed, like appliances.

However, if you're talking about your own circumstance, which was probably 30-35 years ago, no.
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:51 AM
 
15,713 posts, read 9,210,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Takes two to tango, eh? I was initially rejected by the job market during the Carter recession - very little demand in the Rust Belt for liberal arts graduates at that time. By the time the Reagan Recovery caused rents to necessarily skyrocket, I was rejected by employers for lack of career-related experience.

In the absence of career-related experience, the marketable shelf life of a college degree is five years and certainly is not indefinite as some people appear to believe.
One job, not the job market, according to you. You lost one job, gave up, and lived a life of minimum wage earnings.

And you forget we're the same age. So I know all too well what the job market was like. Yet you had a leg up on me - a college degree AND you're a man. I also rented during that time, and had ZERO career related experience.

I find it hard to believe that in 5 years you couldn't find ONE job.

So I'll repeat: at no point in that 5 years did get a better paying job enter into your equation?
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:59 AM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 8,125,625 times
Reputation: 15088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeo123 View Post
Probably the bankruptcy judge. Just a guess.

You need to read what he did again.

Either you didn't understand, and/or you have no actual experience of bankruptcy proceedings. Just a guess - both.
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:09 PM
 
2,303 posts, read 2,249,141 times
Reputation: 3832
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
You need to read what he did again.

Either you didn't understand, and/or you have no actual experience of bankruptcy proceedings. Just a guess - both.
Will bankruptcy get rid of a cash advance used to pay off my student loan? - Nolo.com

Quote:
In most situations, if you pay off student loans with cash advances from your credit card, the cash advance debt won't be discharged in Chapter 7 or Chapter 13 bankruptcy. Here's why.

When Credit Card Debt Might Not Be Discharged in Bankruptcy
Your bankruptcy discharge generally applies to all your credit card debt. However, in certain circumstances, your credit card company can ask the bankruptcy court to declare your debt nondischargeable. There are two main reasons for doing so:
• you incurred the debt via fraud, or
• you incurred the debt to pay off other debt that would normally be nondischargeable.
The question at hand has two considerations - cash advances and student loan debt.

Recent Cash Advances Before Bankruptcy
If you take out a cash advance from your credit card and then file bankruptcy, you may have to repay the debt. Bankruptcy law provides that there is a presumption of fraud if you take out cash advances that total more than $925 within 70 days before filing bankruptcy. If you do so, your credit card company can file a nondischargeability complaint and ask the court to make the debt nondischargeable; if the credit card company wins the lawsuit, you will have to repay the debt. (To learn more, see Recent Charges for Luxury Goods and Cash Advances Before Bankruptcy.)

Cash Advances With the Intent to Defraud the Credit Card Company
Even if the cash advance was more than 70 days ago, however, the creditor can still sue you for nondischargeability if it can otherwise prove fraud. If you take out a cash advance to pay off your student loans and you do so with intent to discharge the debt in bankruptcy, the credit card company can sue you regardless of when you did it. (To learn more, see Complaints for Nondischargeability in Bankruptcy.)
Part in blue is relavent because
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
I did not "pay off" my student loans with credit cards, I still have a sizable student loan balance. I did not directly use credit cards to make student loan payments, I did so indirectly by taking cash advances and then using the cash to make student loan payments. Actually I probably even did that indirectly by taking advantage of the fungability of money - I used the money in my paycheck to make the student loan payments, while the cash advances allowed me to eat despite my depleted bank account.
The credit card company will argue that this was intentionally done in order to defraud them(if you were really just using the CC for food, why would you take cash advances instead of just making the purchases like most other people). The argument would be made before the Bankruptcy Judge, and if the CC company was found to be correct in claiming fraud, who do you think would be the one to make the debt undischargeable?

Quote:
Who is going to prevent me from discharging the (yet unpaid) credit card debt in bankruptcy?
That's right! The bankruptcy judge! I do understand what he did, he said he took out cash advances to indirectly pay off part of his student loans(let's hope no judge ever reads that or the CC company is sure to win). Yes, he could probably cover it up pretty well, but depending on how long these cash advances are spread out over, it could easily been seen as fraud if this all happens within a year, student loan debt drops, and he declares bankruptcy.

The time period this happens over isn't mentioned, but it would have to be within a relatively short period of time or the interest on the cash advances would be more than the amount paid down(so it wasn't spread over 10 years, because if it was, well then this was just a stupid financial move anyway and the CC company already made their money back and then some.)

Yes, freemkt might get away with it, but I never said he wouldn't, just that if anyone was going to make the debt undischargeable, it would be the bankruptcy judge.
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