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Old 03-05-2015, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,666 posts, read 60,237,699 times
Reputation: 101006

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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
It would be possible for a person to go from homeless to middle class in a few years, but quite difficult. Assuming a perfect world, it could happen in a 2-5 years.

The person would need to be lucky to some extent - no health problems or injuries and no mental health problems, no addictions.

Also, he/she would need to be surrounded by good people - avoid people that will exploit, take advantage of, cheat, steal, hurt him. At the poor end of society that's not always easy. More than one poor person I've met was in the position because they got screwed by a relative, ie: exploiting their addiction & profiting from it.

It's not just hard work. You have to be lucky enough to avoid those negative externalities.
it's not just hard work, you're right - it's also some luck. But most importantly, it's MAKING CONSISTENTLY GOOD DECISIONS. Good decisions about who you hang out with, where you go when you're off work, what you put in your body, who you listen to, who you DON'T listen to, who you sleep with, who you DON'T sleep with, etc.
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Old 03-05-2015, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,569,721 times
Reputation: 25225
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
It would be possible for a person to go from homeless to middle class in a few years, but quite difficult. Assuming a perfect world, it could happen in a 2-5 years.

The person would need to be lucky to some extent - no health problems or injuries and no mental health problems, no addictions.

Also, he/she would need to be surrounded by good people - avoid people that will exploit, take advantage of, cheat, steal, hurt him. At the poor end of society that's not always easy. More than one poor person I've met was in the position because they got screwed by a relative, ie: exploiting their addiction & profiting from it.

It's not just hard work. You have to be lucky enough to avoid those negative externalities.
It took me 3 years starting after the 1982 recession, going from homeless and $9000 in debt to being debt free and having the down payment for 5 acres and a house. For those 3 years I lived in a $500 travel trailer.

There was no luck involved, but it took a lot of self discipline.
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Old 03-05-2015, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,004 posts, read 7,144,615 times
Reputation: 17096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
It took me 3 years starting after the 1982 recession, going from homeless and $9000 in debt to being debt free and having the down payment for 5 acres and a house. For those 3 years I lived in a $500 travel trailer.

There was no luck involved, but it took a lot of self discipline.
There was luck in the sense that these things did not happen:

  • You got cancer
  • You broke your leg and couldn't work for 4 months and went deeper in debt
  • Your wife/girlfriend did not leave one night, empty your bank account and take your car and your dog with her (true story of someone I knew)
  • You were able to keep steady jobs during that period; the businesses did not go under
  • You did not develop depression leading to addiction

The single biggest thing was that your health was stable.
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Old 03-05-2015, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,569,721 times
Reputation: 25225
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
There was luck in the sense that these things did not happen:

  • You got cancer
  • You broke your leg and couldn't work for 4 months and went deeper in debt
  • Your wife/girlfriend did not leave one night, empty your bank account and take your car and your dog with her (true story of someone I knew)
  • You were able to keep steady jobs during that period; the businesses did not go under
  • You did not develop depression leading to addiction

The single biggest thing was that your health was stable.
No cancer or broken leg, but my wife did clean out our bank account and file a restraining order against me. Then she called the cops and told them I was trying to kill her and hopped a plane for Hawaii, putting the whole trip on my credit cards, which she still had. I had a very difficult month until the credit card bills started coming in and the police realized what she had done. That was how I ended up homeless and in debt. Prior to that I was a just barely keeping my head above water during the recession. It turned me into a pariah that nobody wanted to associate with.

I was not able to keep a steady job after that. The longest continuous period of employment I had was 5 months during that 3 years.

I have suffered from depression my whole life. I did not commit suicide, which would have ruined my recovery plan, but I certainly entertained the idea almost continually for the first 6 months.
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Old 03-05-2015, 08:25 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,309,685 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
Oregon's minimum wage is also $9.25/hr, so any job at all will provide enough resources to get off the street. A homeless guy doesn't need much, just a change of clothes, access to a washing machine, a shower and a few meals. Any homeless shelter will provide that with no waiting list. A bed my be harder to come by, but there are hobo jungles all over, and doesn't Portland provide a homeless campground with toilet facilities?

Yes, and as one might expect, turnover at the homeless camps is very low, so people can forget about them as an option. I have no idea how a person would get a tent or a shack there- probably harder than getting a Section 8 voucher.
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Old 03-05-2015, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,004 posts, read 7,144,615 times
Reputation: 17096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
No cancer or broken leg, but my wife did clean out our bank account and file a restraining order against me. Then she called the cops and told them I was trying to kill her and hopped a plane for Hawaii, putting the whole trip on my credit cards, which she still had. I had a very difficult month until the credit card bills started coming in and the police realized what she had done. That was how I ended up homeless and in debt. Prior to that I was a just barely keeping my head above water during the recession. It turned me into a pariah that nobody wanted to associate with.

I was not able to keep a steady job after that. The longest continuous period of employment I had was 5 months during that 3 years.

I have suffered from depression my whole life. I did not commit suicide, which would have ruined my recovery plan, but I certainly entertained the idea almost continually for the first 6 months.

Yikes. That was what I was trying to say... that getting screwed over by others is sometimes what puts/keeps people in a vicious cycle of poverty. People can work through those kinds of setbacks but it doesn't always work out for everyone.
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Old 03-05-2015, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,547,618 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
No cancer or broken leg, but my wife did clean out our bank account and file a restraining order against me.
Wow... sorry that happened, man. Harsh duty. Love makes us crazy sometimes. Really an f'd up world. Try to keep your heart open, anyway. Don't let it close you up.

It's true, a lot of people on the streets have been through hell.
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Old 03-05-2015, 11:30 PM
 
30,856 posts, read 36,754,153 times
Reputation: 34384
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
It's true, a lot of people on the streets have been through hell.
Yes, this is the core problem for people who live in the streets. Even if they don't have mental illness or addictions, many are still very emotionally damaged. Most of them have childhood physical/sexual abuse and/or parents who abused drugs and alcohol. That kind of background doesn't lend itself to good decision making, unfortunately.
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Old 03-06-2015, 12:44 AM
 
4,765 posts, read 3,710,465 times
Reputation: 3038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
No cancer or broken leg, but my wife did clean out our bank account and file a restraining order against me. Then she called the cops and told them I was trying to kill her and hopped a plane for Hawaii, putting the whole trip on my credit cards, which she still had. I had a very difficult month until the credit card bills started coming in and the police realized what she had done. That was how I ended up homeless and in debt. Prior to that I was a just barely keeping my head above water during the recession. It turned me into a pariah that nobody wanted to associate with.

I was not able to keep a steady job after that. The longest continuous period of employment I had was 5 months during that 3 years.

I have suffered from depression my whole life. I did not commit suicide, which would have ruined my recovery plan, but I certainly entertained the idea almost continually for the first 6 months.
I applaud you for your honesty and openness! A good illustration why we need a social safety net.

Those who think that if we just eliminate it, everyone will flourish are truly out of touch.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Larry Caldwell again."

Apparently, I must spread the love!
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Old 03-06-2015, 02:23 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
2,998 posts, read 2,252,116 times
Reputation: 2142
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Yes, this is the core problem for people who live in the streets. Even if they don't have mental illness or addictions, many are still very emotionally damaged. Most of them have childhood physical/sexual abuse and/or parents who abused drugs and alcohol. That kind of background doesn't lend itself to good decision making, unfortunately.
I could understand why being homeless destroys you mentally and emotionally. It is constantly living on the streets or homeless shelter day after day probably feeling worthless. I am a pretty well adjusted person who does not drink or use drugs but if I became homeless I would probably be broken and may even start drinking or doing drugs. Unless you have been in the situation you really do not know how bad it is.
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