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Old 02-20-2015, 10:56 AM
 
5,460 posts, read 7,761,278 times
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"Live within your means" as a phrase and as a popular figure of speech, would seem to be self-evident and obvious, at least on the surface. Simply put, it might represent not spending what you don't have. However -- and this is a big "but" -- it can also get incredibly frustrating to have people automatically parroting this phrase, for several reasons. First, the "means" with which one lives has gone down, not up, over the past 30+ years, with wages not being fairly-adjusted to inflation. What this means on a practical level, is that with the varying levels of inflation and deflation of the dollar over the past few decades, people's standards of living have gone down, not up. It was much easier to "live within one's means" in 1950, 1960, and 1970, than it was was say from 1980 - present. Houses that could once be bought decades ago on a single-income family salary for $25,000 may now, in 2015, cost as much as $750,000+, in certain residential areas. This is an extreme example where it is obvious that the financial industry has "moved the goal posts" of what living within one's means represents today in 2015, vs. what it used to mean.

While observing some degree of "living within one's means" would actually seem prudent and even wise, it almost sounds like some people may take it to drastic extremes, where it is used as a justification for endorsing the gradual (and involuntary) reduction of people's living standards, over time. While also serving as an apologist of sorts to the well-off, well-to-do, and the wealthy. Keeping in mind that it is much, much easier to live within one's means, so to speak, if one is already well-off in the first place.
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:59 AM
 
18,547 posts, read 15,584,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarPaladin View Post
"Live within your means" as a phrase and as a popular figure of speech, would seem to be self-evident and obvious, at least on the surface. Simply put, it might represent not spending what you don't have. However -- and this is a big "but" -- it can also get incredibly frustrating to have people automatically parroting this phrase, for several reasons. First, the "means" with which one lives has gone down, not up, over the past 30+ years, with wages not being fairly-adjusted to inflation. What this means on a practical level, is that with the varying levels of inflation and deflation of the dollar over the past few decades, people's standards of living have gone down, not up. It was much easier to "live within one's means" in 1950, 1960, and 1970, than it was was say from 1980 - present. Houses that could once be bought decades ago on a single-income family salary for $25,000 may now, in 2015, cost as much as $750,000+, in certain residential areas. This is an extreme example where it is obvious that the financial industry has "moved the goal posts" of what living within one's means represents today in 2015, vs. what it used to mean.

While observing some degree of "living within one's means" would actually seem prudent and even wise, it almost sounds like some people may take it to drastic extremes, where it is used as a justification for endorsing the gradual (and involuntary) reduction of people's living standards, over time. While also serving as an apologist of sorts to the well-off, well-to-do, and the wealthy. Keeping in mind that it is much, much easier to live within one's means, so to speak, if one is already well-off in the first place.
Real wages have not gone down, on average, for those with full time jobs.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:00 AM
 
Location: CA
3,550 posts, read 1,549,250 times
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There's a similar discussion here : Why do the rich keep telling others to live modestly?
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:07 AM
 
2,991 posts, read 4,289,837 times
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Originally Posted by StarPaladin View Post
Keeping in mind that it is much, much easier to live within one's means, so to speak, if one is already well-off in the first place.
Also keep in mind that it's much, much easier to become well off if you live within your means.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Carmichael, CA
2,410 posts, read 4,456,262 times
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Maybe if you don't like the "means" that you have to work with, it would be a good idea to look at how you can improve yourself to increase your standard of living.

I don't see how complaining about rich people will make anyone's life better. However, spending less that what you bring in, saving, investing, looking for ways to improve yourself--how could that be bad?

I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to afford a $750,000 house. But you could go in with relatives or friends and buy a house you can afford. Then fix it up nights and weekends and sell it in a few years and buy a nicer one. But that would involve actual work and staying on a careful budget and--Oh, God--living within your means. Probably too hard. Easier to complain.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:28 AM
 
18,547 posts, read 15,584,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb73 View Post
Maybe if you don't like the "means" that you have to work with, it would be a good idea to look at how you can improve yourself to increase your standard of living.

I don't see how complaining about rich people will make anyone's life better. However, spending less that what you bring in, saving, investing, looking for ways to improve yourself--how could that be bad?

I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to afford a $750,000 house. But you could go in with relatives or friends and buy a house you can afford. Then fix it up nights and weekends and sell it in a few years and buy a nicer one. But that would involve actual work and staying on a careful budget and--Oh, God--living within your means. Probably too hard. Easier to complain.
Very risky - they could renege on the deal. Better to just have roomies.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:50 AM
 
5,460 posts, read 7,761,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb73 View Post
Maybe if you don't like the "means" that you have to work with, it would be a good idea to look at how you can improve yourself to increase your standard of living.

I don't see how complaining about rich people will make anyone's life better. However, spending less that what you bring in, saving, investing, looking for ways to improve yourself--how could that be bad?

I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to afford a $750,000 house. But you could go in with relatives or friends and buy a house you can afford. Then fix it up nights and weekends and sell it in a few years and buy a nicer one. But that would involve actual work and staying on a careful budget and--Oh, God--living within your means. Probably too hard. Easier to complain.
Actually, while not "rich" per se, I am currently in the upper-middle class economic demographic myself -- and FWIW, actual houses in my neighborhood that could be bought for ~$25k in the 1950's, etc. do in fact now today cost around $750k. My own home residence was appraised for $700k. I earn a lower-end 6-figure annual salary. I have worked very, very hard in my current area of employment for over 2 decades now, and have literally "pulled myself up by the bootstraps". All of this, however, does not lessen the fact that I deeply sympathize with the plight of those who are less well-off financially. It doesn't make it right, either, that people have to needlessly have to suffer financially due to external monetary circumstances fully-outside of their control like inflation and deflation, and then be preached at to have live within their means, even as their living standards are actively being degraded, reduced, and eroded, in a race to the bottom engineered by the financial industry.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Centennial, CO
2,276 posts, read 3,078,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarPaladin View Post
"Live within your means" as a phrase and as a popular figure of speech, would seem to be self-evident and obvious, at least on the surface. Simply put, it might represent not spending what you don't have. However -- and this is a big "but" -- it can also get incredibly frustrating to have people automatically parroting this phrase, for several reasons. First, the "means" with which one lives has gone down, not up, over the past 30+ years, with wages not being fairly-adjusted to inflation. What this means on a practical level, is that with the varying levels of inflation and deflation of the dollar over the past few decades, people's standards of living have gone down, not up. It was much easier to "live within one's means" in 1950, 1960, and 1970, than it was was say from 1980 - present. Houses that could once be bought decades ago on a single-income family salary for $25,000 may now, in 2015, cost as much as $750,000+, in certain residential areas. This is an extreme example where it is obvious that the financial industry has "moved the goal posts" of what living within one's means represents today in 2015, vs. what it used to mean.
I think it's less to do with it being more difficult to live within ones means today than it is to do with the fact that societies standards have changed drastically in the past 50 years. The bar keeps moving higher for everything from education to technology, etc. to the point that it's becoming ridiculous to expect the average person to be able to keep up with it forever. A breaking point will be reached or it will require a paradigm shift in the populace when they wake up and realize that they really don't need all this crap, and life would be so much simpler and easier if they didn't continue to play the game.
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Old 02-20-2015, 12:02 PM
 
18,547 posts, read 15,584,312 times
Reputation: 16235
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShampooBanana View Post
I think it's less to do with it being more difficult to live within ones means today than it is to do with the fact that societies standards have changed drastically in the past 50 years. The bar keeps moving higher for everything from education to technology, etc. to the point that it's becoming ridiculous to expect the average person to be able to keep up with it forever. A breaking point will be reached or it will require a paradigm shift in the populace when they wake up and realize that they really don't need all this crap, and life would be so much simpler and easier if they didn't continue to play the game.
Well put.
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Old 02-20-2015, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Native of Any Beach/FL
35,699 posts, read 21,054,375 times
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I am your frugal American- thrift store shopper etc - coupons - simple living-and I make X dollars a month, as my employer is too greedy to make big changes in wages- I will probably work harder as he employs less people at the same rate of pay with minimal increases- that does not stop food, utilities, clothing, meds, gas to keep going up- because I am frugal -now does it? Kiss my big donkey - will you! - one thing to take in count with your finger pointing- we pay our servicemen crapola- tell them to their face to be more frugal--- --- and hurray for Wally World getting a raise !
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