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With what college tuition costs, I could build my own movie theater as a room addition to my house or fill a whole warehouse with new 60 inch LED TVs. No electronics are causing people's problems. Those things are cheap now. In general, because of trade agreements, etc... consumer goods are cheap these days. Those Chinese, Vietnamese, Philipinos, etc.. work for cheap.
This is on another thread in this forum:
I don't agree with the housing part of the graph, but the phones, personal computers and television lines seem very accurate.
The problem with that chart is that it only shows a very short period. Chart college tuition vs median income from 1500's to now and you'll see a completely different picture. College tuition dropped drastically around WW2 and remained artificially cheap until it started rising in the 90s. We're closing in on the norm.
My point there was that many of the out of touch oldsters would probably be just as up a creek without a paddle as many of today's "kids" given the same set of circumstances. Everybody is quick to be self-congratulatory when things go their way and quick to make excuses when things go to hell. Human nature. Reality is that luck and circumstance has more to do with it than people care to admit.
Well lets compare...
Interest Rates:
When I started out I couldn't buy a house because mortgage interest rates were around 18%, your time, as low as 2.5% and we didn't get any of these crazy easy mortgage terms. We either had 20% to put down or DENIED. Non of this everyone "deserves" a house bs, you didn't deserve it until you had 20%, excellent credit, and a steady job.
Housing Cost:
After years of high interest rates they finally came down to at best 6% and I still couldn't buy because housing costs skyrocketed. Your time, yes still high but with low interest rates.
Inflation:
We had double digit inflation, your time, no inflation,
Work:
We were expected to work and pay our way, cry baby stuff didn't fly, your time, it's nothing but excuses.
Automobile:
We expected to start out with a clunker, your time, you expect to start out with a shiny new set of wheels
Interest Rates:
When I started out I couldn't buy a house because mortgage interest rates were around 18%, your time, as low as 2.5% and we didn't get any of these crazy easy mortgage terms. We either had 20% to put down or DENIED. Non of this everyone "deserves" a house bs, you didn't deserve it until you had 20%, excellent credit, and a steady job.
Housing Cost:
After years of high interest rates they finally came down to at best 6% and I still couldn't buy because housing costs skyrocketed. Your time, yes still high but with low interest rates.
Inflation:
We had double digit inflation, your time, no inflation,
Work:
We were expected to work and pay our way, cry baby stuff didn't fly, your time, it's nothing but excuses.
Automobile:
We expected to start out with a clunker, your time, you expect to start out with a shiny new set of wheels
So you were saying?
Different problems, rock and hard place. With 7-15% annual increases in rents in pretty much every metro that has jobs, saving that 20% down-payment is pretty hard. Rents in my area have been up 10% per year for 3 years and it appears it will continue this year.
With college costing the equivalent of high-end luxury car, there's even less room to transfer to savings. No college means you're not really eligible for a non-dead end job.
Personally I would trade pretty much anything we have now - iPhones, 0% car loans, Starbucks, whatever, to have the 1970s or 1980s relative college tuition rates. Seriously, my mom paid about $2500 a year from 1971-75 to go to Notre Dame. Freaking Notre Dame. It's about 20 times that now, ~55,000, far beyond the rate of inflation which would be about $16,000. Suffice to say, I could not take advantage of legacy admissions there. It cost me about $10K per year to go to a state school that in the 1970s was practically tuition free, and that was 10 years ago. The school costs double now what it did when I went. I feel really sorry for the younger kids going through.
Different problems, rock and hard place. With 7-15% annual increases in rents in pretty much every metro that has jobs, saving that 20% down-payment is pretty hard. Rents in my area have been up 10% per year for 3 years and it appears it will continue this year.
With college costing the equivalent of high-end luxury car, there's even less room to transfer to savings. No college means you're not really eligible for a non-dead end job.
Personally I would trade pretty much anything we have now - iPhones, 0% car loans, Starbucks, whatever, to have the 1970s or 1980s relative college tuition rates. Seriously, my mom paid about $2500 a year from 1971-75 to go to Notre Dame. Freaking Notre Dame. It's about 20 times that now, ~55,000, far beyond the rate of inflation which would be about $16,000. Suffice to say, I could not take advantage of legacy admissions there. It cost me about $10K per year to go to a state school that in the 1970s was practically tuition free, and that was 10 years ago. The school costs double now what it did when I went. I feel really sorry for the younger kids going through.
Yea I feel you on those college costs. I always say that when government subsidize something in the name of the helping poor they end up driving the cost up so even the middle class can't afford it.
It's time both the colleges and professors stop being so greedy. There is something wrong when kids are expected to pay that much money. It's an investment but they've turned it into slavery forcing you to mortgage way too many years of your future for an education. A friends son went to college and was an attorney but struggled... he was high income with huge college debt, I was shocked when he told me how much. He just committed suicide two months ago.
My dad was very sick and couldn't help me with college so I had to work a min wage job to pay and I went to community college. I worked along side people who went away to a big colleges for 4 years and we made the same income only they had debt, I didn't. I know community isn't what kids want to do but it's better than not going at all.
Personally I would trade pretty much anything we have now - iPhones, 0% car loans, Starbucks, whatever, to have the 1970s or 1980s relative college tuition rates. Seriously, my mom paid about $2500 a year from 1971-75 to go to Notre Dame. Freaking Notre Dame. It's about 20 times that now, ~55,000, far beyond the rate of inflation which would be about $16,000.
.
That is due to gov't interference via too easy to get student loans and an insane push to think incredibly low student-teacher ratios are a great thing. The latter means students are dividing a professor's costs amongst fewer students. Imagine how much your favorite restaurant would increase its cost if you demanded they double their staff.or your favorite supplier. That is what drives the ratio down..increased staff relative to customers (a/k/a students). Then we whine "the cost went up (duh)".
Ask your mom what her ND class sizes were. When I went to college, 30+ was quite typical. Unless in a lecture hall setting, where 100+ was not unheard of.
Interest Rates:
When I started out I couldn't buy a house because mortgage interest rates were around 18%, your time, as low as 2.5% and we didn't get any of these crazy easy mortgage terms. We either had 20% to put down or DENIED. Non of this everyone "deserves" a house bs, you didn't deserve it until you had 20%, excellent credit, and a steady job.
Housing Cost:
After years of high interest rates they finally came down to at best 6% and I still couldn't buy because housing costs skyrocketed. Your time, yes still high but with low interest rates.
Inflation:
We had double digit inflation, your time, no inflation,
Work:
We were expected to work and pay our way, cry baby stuff didn't fly, your time, it's nothing but excuses.
Automobile:
We expected to start out with a clunker, your time, you expect to start out with a shiny new set of wheels
So you were saying?
Somehow, I'm having difficulty imagining you would have gone out with a guy who drove a clunker.
That is due to gov't interference via too easy to get student loans and an insane push to think incredibly low student-teacher ratios are a great thing. The latter means students are dividing a professor's costs amongst fewer students. Imagine how much your favorite restaurant would increase its cost if you demanded they double their staff.or your favorite supplier. That is what drives the ratio down..increased staff relative to customers (a/k/a students). Then we whine "the cost went up (duh)".
Ask your mom what her ND class sizes were. When I went to college, 30+ was quite typical. Unless in a lecture hall setting, where 100+ was not unheard of.
Aw that's nothing, I had one class in a lecture hall that seats over 600.
Yea I feel you on those college costs. I always say that when government subsidize something in the name of the helping poor they end up driving the cost up so even the middle class can't afford it.
It's time both the colleges and professors stop being so greedy. There is something wrong when kids are expected to pay that much money. It's an investment but they've turned it into slavery forcing you to mortgage way too many years of your future for an education. A friends son went to college and was an attorney but struggled... he was high income with huge college debt, I was shocked when he told me how much. He just committed suicide two months ago.
My dad was very sick and couldn't help me with college so I had to work a min wage job to pay and I went to community college. I worked along side people who went away to a big colleges for 4 years and we made the same income only they had debt, I didn't. I know community isn't what kids want to do but it's better than not going at all.
The poor get very little help from college cost subsidies because they're not the ones flocking to college.
so you rather the money go to govt via taxes instead of your own future?
fine dont defer it, put it in a roth IRA, no really much different in principle of saving for yourself. I defer close to $30k... that's a big tax savings....
even if it isn't much, do you just throw hands up in air and give up?
I'd also add there's a $200 credit just for having a retirement account if your income is 18K. It's call the "retirement savings contribution credit". So you take the $200 credit and add it on to your retirement savings. Yes, when your income is that low, earning more is generally your best option, but that extra $200 toward your retirement adds up.
From my personal observation, most are "type two". The two poor decisions are to not pay attention in K-12 public education and then compounded by getting married to a loser, popping out a kid or two, and then figuring out that it's necessary to get divorced from the loser. In general, poor people in the United States are single mothers with no 21st century job skills. Once you get trapped in that life, you're too busy dealing with your children and working your 2 or 3 part-time low wage jobs to obtain the job skills to earn more money.
^^Yes, this. I'm not sure it's the most common scenario, but it is common. A lot of times, they don't marry the loser in the first place, but they do have a kid or two with the loser.
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When I went to college, 30+ was quite typical. Unless in a lecture hall setting, where 100+ was not unheard of.
