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It's so easy to accumulate so much stuff that we don't need. Decluttering your life is such a relief, isn't it? Financially, emotionally, etc.
It is fantastic. Every since I have had kids I have been eliminating distractions from my life in order to pay attention to my family and friends. I hardly remember all of the stuff I sold and the relief of having less stuff is amazing. The cash is nice and I am glad my stuff is going to someone who will enjoy/use it.
The citizens of Richville USA making $10 million a year aren't even in the same stratosphere as Average Joe and Jane pulling in $50k combined, including access to social networks, economic networks, and networks of power.
You can be a little or big fish in a little pond, or a little or big fish in a big pond. Just because you're a 50lb fish swimming with other 50lb fish doesn't mean you're the same as the 1 oz fish swimming with other 1oz fish.
From a relative perspective (of your peers), you're on par. Big picture though? 50lb fish aren't the same as 1oz fish, and 10 million HH income families aren't the same as $50k HH income families.
I'm just trying to show you that subjective doesn't always line up with objective, and the definition of social class is a perfect example.
You're right a 50lb fish amongst 50lb fish isn't the same as 1oz fish amongst other 1oz fish, therefore it's LOCALIZED and by that definition, can't be comparable on a national level.
We are ones to have a $200k income living in Seattle, which isn't NYC, but still pricey. To be sure, we do well... we're damn good savers.. but we have to choose between retirement and college savings and having what most consider to be the upper-middle class lifestyle (most my neighbors drive luxury brand cars, have housecleaners, nannies, landscapers and shop at places like Nordstroms and Lululemon). In my opinion, upper class people (and many upper-middle) don't have to choose.. they get to have both.
"having it all" isn't really not an option for us if we're going to reach the standardized measurement of sufficient retirement funds.
Why is that? Well, because house values for a suburban modest, 3 bedroom, 20 year old home in a good school district still is at around $645k.
Our home in Michigan was $150k. Sure we could cash out one day and move some place cheap and become that 50lb fish amongst 1oz fishes and live high on the hot, but I never want to go back to that. I want to stay with the 50lb fishes.. it's a prettier "ocean".
50lb vs 1oz... Apples and oranges.... That's why a national class structure isn't sufficient.
You're right a 50lb fish amongst 50lb fish isn't the same as 1oz fish amongst other 1oz fish, therefore it's LOCALIZED and by that definition, can't be comparable on a national level.
We are ones to have a $200k income living in Seattle, which isn't NYC, but still pricey. To be sure, we do well... we're damn good savers.. but we have to choose between retirement and college savings and having what most consider to be the upper-middle class lifestyle (most my neighbors drive luxury brand cars, have housecleaners, nannies, landscapers and shop at places like Nordstroms and Lululemon). In my opinion, upper class people (and many upper-middle) don't have to choose.. they get to have both.
"having it all" isn't really not an option for us if we're going to reach the standardized measurement of sufficient retirement funds.
Why is that? Well, because house values for a suburban modest, 3 bedroom, 20 year old home in a good school district still is at around $645k.
Our home in Michigan was $150k. Sure we could cash out one day and move some place cheap and become that 50lb fish amongst 1oz fishes and live high on the hot, but I never want to go back to that. I want to stay with the 50lb fishes.. it's a prettier "ocean".
50lb vs 1oz... Apples and oranges.... That's why a national class structure isn't sufficient.
Just for fun, I upscaled your numbers to Richville USA, where everyone makes $10 million per year (from the average HH income of $50k). That means everything becomes 200 times more expensive.
So you're living on a $10 million income in Richville. Your suburban modest, 3 bedroom, 20 year old home in a good school district is around $129 million. Your neighbor's homes are all around the $129 million mark too, but they also shop at more expensive places than you do.
Is your $10 million per year HH income and $129 million home still middle class? If not, what's different?
I will tell you that there were years, long stretches of them, where we saved nothing. In fact we ran in the negative, having good sized CC debts until the next years bonus came and we could (hopefully) pay them off. It was a huge risk living that way, and on one income to boot. Fortunately the wage earner did not loose his job.
To flyingsaucermom, saving $120 on a $200k income is very impressive.
To Ceece, i wonder if these stretches of not saving set you back financially a ton, or if you were able to recover... I would imagine that with discipline you could make up for the non-saving years to get back on track with your plans.
Someone on the thread askec for my income ans expenses. I'm not inclined to share that, but if i did extreme saving and became super financially conservative i could probably save a lot. However kids need summer camp, we have no family nearby to help w childcare, kids need sports, you know the family drill!
What i will say is that i live in NY, within reasonable commute time to NYC, and we have Two young kids...Being that we were used to a newer and spacious home, plus i wasnt going to pay for private school plus insane taxes, we moved to a normal middle class house in a good school district, so our total housing expenses alone are $5k+/month.... That alone makes the savings tougher.
Some of the posters have given me good ideas and motivation to save more. One thing we are doing immediately is switch the places where we go out for dinner and lunch to more casual and low key places. Setting up new accounts to compartmentalize certain expenses.
However i see many folks here have had years of "zero savings"... And that makes me feel normal!
To flyingsaucermom, saving $120 on a $200k income is very impressive.
I don't think it's quite that high (but that would be nice!). $18k (401k)+$50k-ish= $$70-ish. Last year was unusual (because of a sign on bonus and consulting), about $90k.
Too many variables and it depends on so many factors (Income; single or dual, debt, children, home/rent prices in your location, expenses, retirement, general priorities, etc). Everyone's situation is different. I recommend anyone to do a full detail financial analysis and evaluation including avenues of income generation. Many would be surprised on how they spend their income and will also be surprised how much more they can actually save or reallocate spending towards something that is more of a priority.
Too many variables and it depends on so many factors (Income; single or dual, debt, children, home/rent prices in your location, expenses, retirement, general priorities, etc). Everyone's situation is different. I recommend anyone to do a full detail financial analysis and evaluation including avenues of income generation. Many would be surprised on how they spend their income and will also be surprised how much more they can actually save or reallocate spending towards something that is more of a priority.
Good point. I have been looking for a fee only financial advisor in the area and they seem a scarce commodity. Is there a website where i can fjind them?
Too many variables and it depends on so many factors (Income; single or dual, debt, children, home/rent prices in your location, expenses, retirement, general priorities, etc). Everyone's situation is different. I recommend anyone to do a full detail financial analysis and evaluation including avenues of income generation. Many would be surprised on how they spend their income and will also be surprised how much more they can actually save or reallocate spending towards something that is more of a priority.
Very true! Last year I was patting myself on the back for saving 40% and while that was great, the budget I set for us this year is well over 50% and we aren't missing the spending all that much (yet ). The biggest savings has been from very mindful meal planning, preparation and consumption. We've only had one meal out since last year. I never realized how much we were spending in this area. We've cut the coffee shop visits to just once a week too... we used to go at least 3-4x a week.
i found that although being frugal goes a long way. The gains there saturate fairly quickly.
And restricting personal freedom like going out and and eating out, are difficult/stressful.
The biggest way to save is to increase your take home. in a High COL area, there are some avenues to hopefully do that.
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). The biggest savings has been from very mindful meal planning, preparation and consumption. We've only had one meal out since last year. I never realized how much we were spending in this area. We've cut the coffee shop visits to just once a week too... we used to go at least 3-4x a week.
