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I'm paying nearly 25% of my income in taxes and my job does not even pay very well. Taxes are NOT low in America. I am basically paying for corruption and waste. I would gladly accept a 19% flat tax but I think that is still too high. We need to cut government spending at all levels. Taxes should be no higher than 15% TOTAL.
I am in favor of higher taxes on the rich. They should always pay a bit more than Joe & Jane average. So, 15% should be progressive. Most people should pay virtually nothing in taxes.
I'm paying nearly 25% of my income in taxes and my job does not even pay very well. Taxes are NOT low in America. I am basically paying for corruption and waste. I would gladly accept a 19% flat tax but I think that is still too high. We need to cut government spending at all levels. Taxes should be no higher than 15% TOTAL.
I am in favor of higher taxes on the rich. They should always pay a bit more than Joe & Jane average. So, 15% should be progressive. Most people should pay virtually nothing in taxes.
What are you counting to get to that 25%?
$200K, single, standard deduction pays 24% in Federal income taxes. Most 5%er households making that are married, have a couple kids, and have mortgage and property taxes to write off. 15% effective tax rate is pretty typical.
The people who get really nailed are the self-employed who make low 6 figures. They have to pay both sides of the payroll tax so about 15% in payroll taxes, another ~10% in Federal income taxes, plus whatever they pay for state income tax, sales tax, and property tax. On top of that, they either pay through the nose for private health insurance or they get really lousy high deductible insurance from ACA.
This "taxes are not low in America" is total BS. In any other first world country, you'd be paying close to 50% between payroll deductions and GST/VAT. Food is double the cost. Consumer goods are about 1.6x. Cars are 1.5x. I used to work in Belgium. The low paid receptionist had almost a 50% tax burden.
I'm paying nearly 25% of my income in taxes and my job does not even pay very well. Taxes are NOT low in America. I am basically paying for corruption and waste.
That's misdirection and over-generalization. A portion of taxes are lost to corruption and waste. The solution to that is to attack the corruption and waste, not the taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zie92mg9z
I would gladly accept a 19% flat tax but I think that is still too high.
The problem is that you seem to be trying to declare how much is "too high" based on how it affects your personal discretionary income, rather than based on what it should actually cost to do what it is the government is to be doing, in accordance with the will of the people. As such, such claims have no merit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zie92mg9z
We need to cut government spending at all levels.
Make up your mind: Is it corruption and waste that you're upset about, or spending in general? The reason why I ask is because if you're upset about corruption and waste, then that makes sense - in just about everyone's mind. We can work together to raise the importance of fighting actual corruption and actual waste. But if all you're doing is whining about spending from which you personally don't derive a benefit, then your concerns can be more readily dismissed as indefensibly self-motivated. The financial reality is that money spent needs to be accompanied by money raised.
$200K, single, standard deduction pays 24% in Federal income taxes. Most 5%er households making that are married, have a couple kids, and have mortgage and property taxes to write off. 15% effective tax rate is pretty typical.
The people who get really nailed are the self-employed who make low 6 figures. They have to pay both sides of the payroll tax so about 15% in payroll taxes, another ~10% in Federal income taxes, plus whatever they pay for state income tax, sales tax, and property tax. On top of that, they either pay through the nose for private health insurance or they get really lousy high deductible insurance from ACA.
This "taxes are not low in America" is total BS. In any other first world country, you'd be paying close to 50% between payroll deductions and GST/VAT. Food is double the cost. Consumer goods are about 1.6x. Cars are 1.5x. I used to work in Belgium. The low paid receptionist had almost a 50% tax burden.
My guess is that the poster probably got this percentage figure from one of those anti-tax websites that calculate their numbers from all the "taxes" that are in place in a particular state: federal income, state income, sales tax, motor vehicle registration fees, gasoline taxes, mortgage registration fees, taxes on cigarettes, business franchise fees, etc, etc. even though most people won't actually pay more than a few of those "taxes".
Too many focus only on income taxes and ignore that fact that many spend more on overall tax than anything else.
If you total income tax, social security, real estate taxes (sometimes embedded in rent), sales tax, excise taxes, fuel tax, and the taxes hidden in the price of products you buy, you may find that supporting government (at all levels) takes most of your income.
The method used to tax people is not the largest issue, it is the size of government and the spending.
$200K, single, standard deduction pays 24% in Federal income taxes. Most 5%er households making that are married, have a couple kids, and have mortgage and property taxes to write off. 15% effective tax rate is pretty typical.
The people who get really nailed are the self-employed who make low 6 figures. They have to pay both sides of the payroll tax so about 15% in payroll taxes, another ~10% in Federal income taxes, plus whatever they pay for state income tax, sales tax, and property tax. On top of that, they either pay through the nose for private health insurance or they get really lousy high deductible insurance from ACA.
This "taxes are not low in America" is total BS. In any other first world country, you'd be paying close to 50% between payroll deductions and GST/VAT. Food is double the cost. Consumer goods are about 1.6x. Cars are 1.5x. I used to work in Belgium. The low paid receptionist had almost a 50% tax burden.
I'd guess 10% effective fed less than 5% state and the med/SS 7.65%
I'd guess 10% effective fed less than 5% state and the med/SS 7.65%
So they're going to vote for some Fox News-inspired flat tax candidate and have their taxes go up by 50%+. If you're not making 6 figures, you're not paying much in the way of Federal income taxes. You have to be north of $250K to have the upper brackets cause much in the way of pain.
I think the 0.1%er political strategy is brilliant. They use unimportant fringe issues like religion, abortion rights, and gun control to get lower income people to vote against their economic self-interest. If you're median household income, how could you possibly vote for someone who wants to abolish Social Security, Medicaid, and institute a flat tax? That only benefits truly rich people. I'm high enough income and old enough that I benefit from the low taxes and I'm grandfathered against what's inevitably coming with Social Security reform. Even the "privatize everything" candidates put age 55 as a cutoff and I've crossed that. My only wildcard is Medicare where I have no clue what to expect a decade from now.
The personal finance part of all of this is that people under age 50 really need to make the assumption that today's safety net with Social Security and Medicare is likely only going to kick in for people who did nothing to save for retirement or accumulate wealth. If you don't want to live at poverty level at age 60-something, you need to maintain a very high savings rate.
$200K, single, standard deduction pays 24% in Federal income taxes. Most 5%er households making that are married, have a couple kids, and have mortgage and property taxes to write off. 15% effective tax rate is pretty typical.
Property taxes aren't deductible under the AMT though, which $200K is likely going to hit. And there's the social security tax, and medicare, and the Obama bonus medicare tax.
I was born abroad. English is my 3rd language. I am a citizen now.
The most amazing quote I have ever read in my life was from a Canadian man called Ronald Wright. When I heard the quote in freshman philosophy at Ohio State University, I laughed so hard I was wheezing in a classroom full of english majoring, mildly retarded women. None of them comprehended the profundity. Because they are stupid.
They were in college to make mom happy and to meet a guy with family money, failing that a bright engineer. Like almost all women in college.
The quote is: “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
If you have traveled the world and take a moment to think about what I just bolded, you'll understand so much more about life and humanity than most people ever will.
That quote, read comprehensively, explains why The United States of America is the greatest accomplishment in the history of the human species.
In other words, that quote answers your question.
Totally agree. I've thought essentially the same thing regarding poor rednecks who vote Republican against their own interests - obviously they think they're going to hit it big any time now...and want to play with the millionaires.
But you're a @sshat in terms of college women - well, except for those choosing to major in literature, fine arts, and the like.
Too many focus only on income taxes and ignore that fact that many spend more on overall tax than anything else.
If you total income tax, social security, real estate taxes (sometimes embedded in rent), sales tax, excise taxes, fuel tax, and the taxes hidden in the price of products you buy, you may find that supporting government (at all levels) takes most of your income.
The method used to tax people is not the largest issue, it is the size of government and the spending.
Sure - you need to figure state and federal taxes PLUS sales tax on pretty much whatever other money from your salary that you don't save - so for most folks 75-100%.
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