Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Personal Finance
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-02-2016, 02:14 PM
 
104 posts, read 297,842 times
Reputation: 74

Advertisements

I'm a total noob when it comes to stock, especially, various employer stock grants. You'll see from my question... But I'm hoping someone can explain this so that third grader can understand

I was given a stock grant by my employer of Restricted Stock Units (RSU). In my offer it was stated that I will receive RSUs in the amount equivalent to certain dollar amount, no more details.
From what I see in my account, the total value of units I received is 4 times the amount stated in the offer, and they vest over the 4 year period.
So, let's say they gave me $1000 worth of units, and the price of the unit (determined through some formula based on average price of stock over some time, like 14 days prior to stock grant) was $10/share. So I received a total of 100 shares. At this time I don't really have anything, because I'm not vested until a year from the date of the grant. At one year mark, I receive 25 units, then 25 units more after two years and so forth.

My question is - what happens if the price of the stock goes up or down after the RSU was granted but before employee is vested?
Let's say in year the stock price is $12 instead of $10/share. Does this mean that I am vested in 25 shares at $12/share? Or does the price of the stock on the date of grant still matters?
Basically, do I have shares or do I have dollar amount?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-02-2016, 04:01 PM
 
816 posts, read 967,640 times
Reputation: 539
ONCE GRANTED. You are then exposed to the market .
i.e. Once granted, your dollar amount will rise and fall with the , market.

BEFORE GRANT, you are decoupled from market, i.e. they will divide your promised amount by the market value on grant date.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 08:45 AM
 
3,050 posts, read 4,991,412 times
Reputation: 3780
You have shares. So your value will increase with the market. When your shares vest you will receive the market value.


Keep in mind, vesting is a taxable event. In my case, some of the shares are withheld to cover withholding taxes. So of the 25 shares you are awarded, you may get 18 shares after taxes.


The value of the shares on the day you vest is your cost basis. So if the value continues to increase, and you sell the shares, you will be subject to capital gains tax. (Selling price of shares - price of shares on vesting date = capital gain)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 10:48 AM
 
816 posts, read 967,640 times
Reputation: 539
they will be tax-withheld typically at supplemental rates.
i.e Federal - 25%
State (CA) - 10%
FICA ~ 8%
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 01:12 PM
 
104 posts, read 297,842 times
Reputation: 74
Thank you all for answering.

So, to summarize, on the day I'm vested, I will receive my 25 shares, and they will cost whatever the market price is on that day (so far, the price went UP since the day of the grant, but who knows what happens in a year). Vesting is a taxable event, so I will have to pay taxes on the total cost of 25 shares on the vesting day.

I'm not quite clear why my taxes would be withheld in shares. Isn't it just income that has to be reported on my tax return, and then payed for in taxes? I will see in a year, I guess.

I do understand about capital gains. Basically, if I don't sell them for a year after vesting, it will be long term gains when I sell and taxed at a rate lower than ordinary income, otherwise - short term, which is taxed as ordinary income.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 01:29 PM
 
5,342 posts, read 6,164,572 times
Reputation: 4719
to put it all together. Once they are granted the amount of money you have is subject to the price fluctuations of the stock in the market. When it vests, it is taxed immediately as income and the amount you are taxed is subtracted from the shares. So if you are granted 50 shares and at the time of vesting they are worth $75/share you will actually only end up receiving ~30 shares after taxes.
I have my first set of RSUs vesting next week.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 05:00 PM
 
104 posts, read 297,842 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
to put it all together. Once they are granted the amount of money you have is subject to the price fluctuations of the stock in the market. When it vests, it is taxed immediately as income and the amount you are taxed is subtracted from the shares. So if you are granted 50 shares and at the time of vesting they are worth $75/share you will actually only end up receiving ~30 shares after taxes.
I have my first set of RSUs vesting next week.
Thanks. Now, back to my approach I thought I'd use when I was signing this offer: treat this as a "free money" and quit watching the company stock!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2016, 10:04 PM
 
816 posts, read 967,640 times
Reputation: 539
couple of things. Its not free money. Its money in return for your work. You should treat it like any other money you receive.
For e.g. If I gave you 2000 USD tomorrow, and asked you to invest it the best way you can, would you buy your company's stock with it?

If you answer no, then you should sell your RSU stocks immediately and re-allocate into your preferred investment choices.


Its standard tax law , wherein your RSU vest is treated equivalent to a bonus payout.
Bonus payouts are withheld at supplemental rates.

Just like you never see the cash withheld, you never see the stocks either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2016, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Redwood City, CA
15,250 posts, read 12,947,351 times
Reputation: 54050
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAndCurious View Post
Thanks. Now, back to my approach I thought I'd use when I was signing this offer: treat this as a "free money" and quit watching the company stock!
"Free money" with handcuffs attached: Your RSUs vest only as long as you're with the company.

If you die, your RSUs don't vest for the benefit of your estate. If you leave the company, they don't vest. If you retire, ditto.

I do know people who have walked away and left RSUs behind because they got a better all-cash offer elsewhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2016, 04:17 PM
 
104 posts, read 297,842 times
Reputation: 74
Let me explain about "free money". When I was negotiating my offer, I decided to ignore the stock grant part of it (as well as bonus, which was written into the contract as well), and concentrated on getting base compensation to the level that made leaving my previous employer worth it l. My logic was "I may not get the full bonus, I have no idea how the stock will behave over the years. I need to know that no matter what, I'm getting AT LEAST enough to justify this move. The rest is gravy". But now, when I received the grant, I find myself planning what I can do with the money, and I think it may lead me into unhealthy state of watching the stock price . Need to go back to my original strategy.
And yes, I'm thinking about selling at least half of the shares as soon as they vest. I love my company and think we have a bright future, but I don't want to invest money in it, just my time (as long as I'm paid, of course!)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Personal Finance

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:41 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top