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Old 10-04-2016, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
19,480 posts, read 25,056,304 times
Reputation: 51113

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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
It would have been a short time that the aunt was around, a few months at the most, and probably not that long. She lived in another state with her husband. No other cousins because it was just her daughter and her brother's kids (my husband and his siblings).

The fact that there was even anything to probate in his dad's case makes me think that it was the dad's share of his mothers estate. And yes, it would have been big bucks. A lot of land in a wealthy county. I'm sure it would have been in the millions when sold.
Come on. Even if your husband and his siblings were all young children when Grandma died 30 years ago, not one of them as a teenager or a college student or young working adult in their 20s ever wondered what happened to Grandma's farm, that might be worth millions of dollars? None of them asked the aunt or cousin what happened? None of them contacted the court house or an attorney in their old home town? Sheesh!

I know people who would do that for an estate worth $1,000 but an estate potentially worth millions and no one was even curious about what happened? That is pretty odd.

Heck, my grand-niece is only 10 years old and she has even asked me "What will happen to Great-grandma Mary & Great-Grandpa John's farm when my grandpa and you are dead?" (BTW, the answer is her mother & her siblings & her first cousins will inherit it).

At least check it out for your husband's own piece of mind. If there was fraud or something illegal was done maybe it is not too late to try to recover at least some of the money from the cousin, who inherited it from her mother. Or maybe you can sue the county or the judge or the attorney if they cheated and knowingly did things that were illegal. Maybe a probate official colluded with the aunt to cheat her relatives out of their share if he got a cut of the estate. Or something like that. Or maybe they did not try hard enough to find the missing relatives that were listed in the will. Or something.

Last edited by germaine2626; 10-04-2016 at 12:43 PM..
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Old 10-04-2016, 01:45 PM
 
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^^^ They had no relationship with that aunt or cousin or any other family members on that side of their family (and not much family on the other side either after deaths in the family). All the family they had a relationship with, their dad and grandparents, had died. I think my husband just figured if the aunt took the money there was nothing they could do about it. Plus there was trauma I won't go into that they were dealing with so at the time being possible heirs to an estate wasn't on their minds and I think they naively thought that if there was anything for them they would be contacted.

I'm sure any money is long gone by now; maybe not knowing is better than knowing!

Last edited by luzianne; 10-04-2016 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 10-04-2016, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
19,480 posts, read 25,056,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
^^^ They had no relationship with that aunt or cousin or any other family members on that side of their family (and not much family on the other side either after deaths in the family). All the family they had a relationship with, their dad and grandparents, had died. I think my husband just figured if the aunt took the money there was nothing they could do about it. Plus there was trauma I won't go into that they were dealing with so at the time being possible heirs to an estate wasn't on their minds and I think they naively thought that if there was anything for them they would be contacted.

I'm sure any money is long gone by now; maybe not knowing is better than knowing!
Since most of those things are public records, perhaps you could check without involving him or his siblings. If it does turn out that there was fraud you still may be able to collect.

For example, if the money was supposed to be shared and it was not because the aunt said that all of her nieces & nephews were dead then perhaps the money can be gotten from the cousin. Perhaps they have an enormous house that they inherited from their mother (the aunt) would need to be sold to repay the rightful heirs.

if you discover that an attorney worked with his aunt on cheating your husband & his siblings out of his inheritance, they may be able to sue the attorney and maybe get the missing money from him.

If the land, that was sold to build all of those houses, did not have a clear title you may be able to sue the title company and get the missing money.

If an actual crime was committed by someone or several people, the aunt, a judge, an attorney, a file clerk, and/or someone else, wouldn't you want them charged with a crime so that they did not do the same thing to other innocent people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
(snip)

At least check it out for your husband's own piece of mind. If there was fraud or something illegal was done maybe it is not too late to try to recover at least some of the money from the cousin, who inherited it from her mother. Or maybe you can sue the county or the judge or the attorney if they cheated and knowingly did things that were illegal. Maybe a probate official colluded with the aunt to cheat her relatives out of their share if he got a cut of the estate. Or something like that. Or maybe they did not try hard enough to find the missing relatives that were listed in the will. Or something.
Although, it was a different matter, my relatives and I were involved with an issue that went back to 1942. It was absolutely amazing all of the township, county and state records that we found dating back 70 plus years. We found township payroll and tax records, for three specific workers, that proved a certain issue. We even found several eye witnesses who were in their 80s and 90s that could confirm aspects of the dispute. Now, if we could find all that for something that happened in a rural area in 1942, I bet that you can fairly easily find all of those legal documents (wills, titles, deeds, probate records, etc.) from just 30 years ago.

Last edited by germaine2626; 10-04-2016 at 07:09 PM..
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:02 PM
 
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Thanks for your input. Yes, I do intend to pursue it. I really don't expect to recover any money if there is indeed money that should have rightfully gone to husband and siblings, but it would be nice to at least know the chain of events.
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Old 10-05-2016, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Central Mexico and Central Florida
7,150 posts, read 4,886,284 times
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In most states, if an estate goes into Probate, it can only be challenged WHILE the probate case is open.
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Old 10-05-2016, 02:26 PM
 
3,763 posts, read 12,521,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dothetwist View Post
In most states, if an estate goes into Probate, it can only be challenged WHILE the probate case is open.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. The whole point of probate is to legally settle the disposition of the estate. Once it's complete, its complete. Unless uknown assets come to light - in which case they may reopen probate.

But this doesn't sound like that situation. It sounds like relatives who are unhappy at what might have transpired 30 years ago but have no actual proof of fraud...?
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Old 10-05-2016, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
19,480 posts, read 25,056,304 times
Reputation: 51113
Quote:
Originally Posted by dothetwist View Post
In most states, if an estate goes into Probate, it can only be challenged WHILE the probate case is open.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Briolat21 View Post
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. The whole point of probate is to legally settle the disposition of the estate. Once it's complete, its complete. Unless uknown assets come to light - in which case they may reopen probate.

But this doesn't sound like that situation. It sounds like relatives who are unhappy at what might have transpired 30 years ago but have no actual proof of fraud...?
While, I doubt that they will find proof of fraud, it is a possibility and then there could be criminal charges against the people involved.

Or, they will just find a copy of Grandma's will where she leaves everything to her daughter (the aunt) and it will be over.
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Old 10-05-2016, 02:37 PM
 
3,763 posts, read 12,521,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
I'm sure it's much too late. But on our county's website I see that THIRTY YEARS AGO there was a probate case for my father in law's estate. Now, he didn't have any money but his mother did, and I am thinking this is regarding his share of her estate. He predeceased her, so I think this must have been money that should have gone to his heirs.


What I THINK happened: My husband and all his siblings lived in this area but NONE of them were ever contacted about their grandmother's death or their father's part of her estate. Father in law had a sister. I suspect that she/her daughter posted a notice in the paper or whatever you have to do to "prove" that you tried to notify heirs, and none of my husband's siblings saw it, and the entire estate went to the aunt/cousin.


Grandmother had quite a bit of land in a high price area and that land was obviously sold to a developer, because houses were built on the land. The question is - who got the money from the sale of the land and was half of it supposed to go to my husband and his siblings?


Is it worth pursuing all these years later? And can we go the courthouse and ask to see the court records? I'm sure we can; it's public record. But I'm just wondering if there is anything that can be done now.
Totally confused. You say your FIL predeceased (died before) his Mother. But that the probate for his estate (30 years ago) had to be related to his inheirtance from her.

If he died before her, then whatever was probated, wasn't his inheiritance from her.

Almost anything that is "Real property" (mostly things that are "titled) can cause probate. 1 share of stock = probate if there's no beneficiary listed.

A bank account without survivorship rights = probate.

A beat up 10 year old van worth $1200?? = probate (unless titled in such a way as to allow the other person to assume full ownership).

A house or condo title = probate.

So it could be that your FIL could have had very little in assets (as you are suggesting) and still had an estate that had to go to probate.

Back to your FIL predeasing his mother. Generally speaking, that would have destroyed any share he had in the inheirtance. (Because he was deceased, therefore no share). Depending on how GMIL wrote her will, she could have made allowance for grandchildren directly, or if their parent predeceased them. But not necessarily. If she only made allowances for her children, then by reason of predeasing her, his shares would have reverted to his siblings. It 100% depends on how GMIL will was structured.

If your concerned about how her assets were dispositioned -you should be looking at her probate/estate, and not your FIL.

(though again, there seems to be nothing to suggest malfeasance).
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Old 10-05-2016, 03:01 PM
 
4,286 posts, read 4,736,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briolat21 View Post
Back to your FIL predeasing his mother. Generally speaking, that would have destroyed any share he had in the inheirtance. (Because he was deceased, therefore no share). Depending on how GMIL wrote her will, she could have made allowance for grandchildren directly, or if their parent predeceased them. But not necessarily. If she only made allowances for her children, then by reason of predeasing her, his shares would have reverted to his siblings. It 100% depends on how GMIL will was structured.

If your concerned about how her assets were dispositioned -you should be looking at her probate/estate, and not your FIL.

(though again, there seems to be nothing to suggest malfeasance).
This ^^^
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Old 10-08-2016, 01:00 AM
 
13,721 posts, read 19,185,114 times
Reputation: 16970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Briolat21 View Post
Totally confused. You say your FIL predeceased (died before) his Mother. But that the probate for his estate (30 years ago) had to be related to his inheirtance from her.

If he died before her, then whatever was probated, wasn't his inheiritance from her.

Almost anything that is "Real property" (mostly things that are "titled) can cause probate. 1 share of stock = probate if there's no beneficiary listed.

A bank account without survivorship rights = probate.

A beat up 10 year old van worth $1200?? = probate (unless titled in such a way as to allow the other person to assume full ownership).

A house or condo title = probate.

So it could be that your FIL could have had very little in assets (as you are suggesting) and still had an estate that had to go to probate.

Back to your FIL predeasing his mother. Generally speaking, that would have destroyed any share he had in the inheirtance. (Because he was deceased, therefore no share). Depending on how GMIL wrote her will, she could have made allowance for grandchildren directly, or if their parent predeceased them. But not necessarily. If she only made allowances for her children, then by reason of predeasing her, his shares would have reverted to his siblings. It 100% depends on how GMIL will was structured.

If your concerned about how her assets were dispositioned -you should be looking at her probate/estate, and not your FIL.

(though again, there seems to be nothing to suggest malfeasance).

Actually, his probate case was filed after his mother died, not after he died/before she died, which leads me to believe that half of her estate (or her property) went to him/his heirs and the other half to his sister/her heirs. He died 7 years before she did, so I don't see why it would take 7+ years after he died for probate if it was just whatever property he owned and nothing from her estate. It was filed soon after her death. I am in the process of getting the records.
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