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Old 04-16-2017, 04:46 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,594,635 times
Reputation: 12523

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
^minimum wage shouldn't be so low that working 2 or 3 jobs should be necessary. Temporarily, when you are young, fine. I did that for a while. For anyone else, it doesn't make for a very good quality of life. Working 2 jobs leaves no time for rest or family, and adds the stress of trying to coordinate schedules. A lot of you are taking pride in working multiple jobs for low wages. We, as a community and a country, should want better than that.
A person should want better than that. Lots of people do, so they find ways to learn skills commanding higher pay.

 
Old 04-16-2017, 04:53 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,594,635 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
That's all well and good... But the cost of college has risen so much that MW would not even pay for community college today. College became unaffordable about 20 years ago. A MW worker over age 24 (or under 24 from a poor family) would qualify for Pell grants which puts comm. college or low tier university in play... But again we're talking subsidies; the MW alone is not adequate.
Isn't it fortunate that MW workers are not required to remain MW workers? If college is out of reach on MW, then either:

1. Acquire skills to earn more than MW.

Or

2. Complain while waiting for the universe to magically realign and make everything easy for you.

We all choose for ourselves.
 
Old 04-16-2017, 05:05 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,049,204 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
A person should want better than that. Lots of people do, so they find ways to learn skills commanding higher pay.
Yes, they should. Not everyone is capable, and for those who are, not much time for skill building is left after working their 2 jobs.
 
Old 04-16-2017, 06:18 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,328,196 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
No. Don't be absurd. But you will need more than just the single MW job.
---

Are we still talking about the single and/or young?
Then you're going to be sharing a home with others.
How many others will vary.

If that single/young person has any hope of rising above that level,
as in marriage and kids and a real future... they'll need to rise above those limited skills
and/or relocate to where the skills they have will yield the rest.

BUT!! If you can't, or worse WON'T, do what's needed to rise above that MW level of life...
don't go looking for anyone else to blame but you.

What about the single and NOT young - in a place full of millennials? There are zillions of rooms here available to millennials that are NOT available to over-50s, if CL is to be believed.
 
Old 04-16-2017, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
9,764 posts, read 15,709,960 times
Reputation: 10850
Quote:
Originally Posted by IGoZoom View Post
For example, I love a certain brand of popsicle called Outshine (frozen 100% juice) and they cost $5.49 at my local grocery store, but I just bought them for $3.49 per box on sale vs. $5.49-$5.99 at the major chains in my area.
OT for a minute:
This popped out at me because I've been buying Outshine bars for my kids, too. If someone you know has a membership at Costco, they are much cheaper there. They sell a package of 4 boxes (24 popsicles total) for $9.99 (so $2.50 per box). But until tomorrow (4/17) there is a coupon for $3.50 off, so $6.50 for a package of 4 boxes ($1.63 per box!). My husband went last week and bought 4 packages! A worker told him, they aren't going to be carrying them any longer, though, and the coupon expires on the 17th, so you need to act quickly if you want them. The one downside is that you don't get to pick your flavors. The package comes with a box each of grape, strawberry, tangerine, and pineapple.
 
Old 04-16-2017, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,012 posts, read 7,155,230 times
Reputation: 17106
Ok
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
No. Don't be absurd. But you will need more than just the single MW job.
---

Are we still talking about the single and/or young?
Then you're going to be sharing a home with others.
How many others will vary.

If that single/young person has any hope of rising above that level,
as in marriage and kids and a real future... they'll need to rise above those limited skills
and/or relocate to where the skills they have will yield the rest.

BUT!! If you can't, or worse WON'T, do what's needed to rise above that MW level of life...
don't go looking for anyone else to blame but you.
Easily said, more difficult in reality. Not everyone will succeed. It's not always for lack of trying that they fail.
 
Old 04-16-2017, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Garbage, NC
3,125 posts, read 3,000,974 times
Reputation: 8240
From 19-23, I lived off of crap jobs. I worked at a restaurant for a while and made just over minimum wage. Well, it's hard to really say how much I made...some days/weeks, I made less...sometimes, we'd be super busy or I'd have generous customers, and I'd make well over minimum wage. It all evened out to just over, though.

I rented a cheap, tiny one-bedroom apartment that was kind of on the line between the "ghetto" and "dangerous" area of town and a slightly nicer area. My apartment complex in particular was not dangerous, but shootings and such did happen one street over -- in both directions -- quite often. I did get robbed once when I was walking home from work, and my car did get broken into a couple of times. (Yes, I had a car. Yes, I walked to work. More on that in a minute.)

My rent was $435 a month. Electric was normally $80-$100 (it was an old building, and even though the apartment was small, it was expensive to heat and cool...especially in our 100-degree summers...even when I kept the thermostat at 78-80 in the summer. Every now and then, I was just SO hot from being in a hot kitchen and then walking home in the heat that I'd turn it down to like 76, even though I probably shouldn't have..) I had to have water/garbage/sewer through the city, and even though I conserved water (I couldn't take a long shower if I wanted to...the water heater didn't last long enough...and I didn't have a washing machine in my apartment), that bill was usually $75 a month.

I paid cash for the car that I had at the time -- $500 -- when I had a really good week and got some good tips. I was going to pay my rent a week early to get ahead -- I was always in fear that I wouldn't be able to pay my rent on time because I was so dependent on tips, and things could slow down randomly -- but I really did need a car, and someone was selling a newerish model, halfway decent car (for me, at the time) for cheap, so I jumped on it. It took me months to gather up the money to get the tags, put insurance on it, etc. Once I did, I had those expenses to deal with, but at least I was able to get around...I don't really live in an area that is walking-friendly, although my job was a relatively short walk away. In the meantime, saving up the cash to get tags and whatnot was tough because when I needed a ride somewhere, I had to pay $5-10 each way for it to be worth the person's time...and I felt like such a "bum," which I hated.

I ate cheap...we couldn't eat free at the restaurant that I worked at, but we could get a slight discount if the boss was in a good mood that day. I worked with a girl who had a couple of kids and a pretty tough life...she'd go in the kitchen and eat uneaten food off of customers' plates if it didn't look touched. :/ Looking back, I didn't eat much back then. I'd get a slice of pizza (usually $2 for customers, but sometimes I'd only have to pay $1) for lunch, and I'd sometimes make a salad or something to take home for a couple of bucks. Every now and then, if someone ordered a takeout order and didn't pick it up or if the kitchen made something wrong, the owner would let one of us have it, which was like Christmas.

Buying groceries wasn't easy; our area has improved its public transportation somewhat since then, but at the time, the stops were pretty far away and only ran on certain schedules that got in the way of my work schedules. I would walk to the Rite-Aid, which was the only place anywhere close by that sold food, but food was pricey there...as much as I love to cook, I'd buy things like ramen noodles, canned soup, sandwich stuff. The convenience store near my house sold chicken wings and potato wedges pretty cheap, so sometimes I'd just get that instead of walking to Rite-Aid.

I got in trouble once with my boss because my work pants and work shoes (we were required to wear our own black pants and black shoes) both had holes in them. My work pants were coming apart at the seams on the insides of my thighs, but all of this happened really quickly, and I hadn't been able to replace them. My shoes (dollar store Crocs-type) had had holes in the bottom of them for a long time, but I didn't really think about customers being able to see it when I was walking away. My feet would always hurt, and my socks would get wet when I walked home if it'd been raining, but it was the only black pair of shoes I had. I had to make a payment arrangement with my electric company so that I could buy new pants and shoes because I'd lose my job if I didn't. I really didn't have clothes to wear when I got off work...I remember having two pairs of pajama pants and a couple of older T-shirts that I'd bought from Wal-Mart. I had jeans that had holes around the pockets and in the thighs. The only shoes I had were a pair of moccasin-style slippers, other than my holey "work shoes." I mostly just wore work clothes, then changed into PJ's as soon as I got home. This was when many girls my age were getting their hair done, buying the best and most expensive makeup, buying cute outfits and going out on the town all the time. I did "treat" myself to cheap makeup -- Wet N Wild, E.L.F. -- here and there and always felt guilty, holding 2 or 3 $1-each items in my hand and debating like crazy about which one to put back.

Yes, it's possible to "make it" off of minimum wage. I did, and I didn't get any help from the government, from family or anybody. It was not easy. It was stressful. I live in an area with a relatively low cost of living. I lived in a semi-dangerous area. I lived in a tiny and old apartment. I was willing and physically capable of walking to work, the convenience store, Rite-Aid. I can't imagine living that way in the long-term, at all. And although I think it would be doable for someone who is already "set up" (already has a paid-for car, maybe even a paid-for house), I don't see how it would be possible for someone to live that way with children without a lot of help from the government. Maybe for a couple of months or something, but definitely not in the long term.
 
Old 04-17-2017, 04:47 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,545,307 times
Reputation: 43649
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Not everyone will succeed. It's not always for lack of trying that they fail.
True enough.

But that expectation of really trying has to be the threshold, the minimum of expectations,
before indicting the "system" rather than the individual for their less than ideal life.

Which seems to be the objective by too many including here and the related efforts to
"move the goalposts" in the discussions from the MW concept to a "living wage" ...
as though everyone is somehow owed a middle class life merely because they exist.
 
Old 04-17-2017, 06:11 AM
 
280 posts, read 349,134 times
Reputation: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyDrew1 View Post
I am not a financial guru so this is to the best of my knowledge.

mathjack may come along and find some slight inconsistencies but it's either spot on or pretty darn accurate imho
I am not uneducated. I'm probably one of the few people in the world who actually sits at work and reads the entire 100 page 401k and pension plan document page by page because I'm interested. No legal 401k plan is charging 1% a month in fees. That is crazy! You are not understanding how much money that would add up to.

You are just misreading whatever you are attempting to use as a source.
 
Old 04-17-2017, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,012 posts, read 7,155,230 times
Reputation: 17106
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
True enough.

But that expectation of really trying has to be the threshold, the minimum of expectations,
before indicting the "system" rather than the individual for their less than ideal life.

Which seems to be the objective by too many including here and the related efforts to
"move the goalposts" in the discussions from the MW concept to a "living wage" ...
as though everyone is somehow owed a middle class life merely because they exist.
The general takeaway, I still think, is that in answer to the OP, someone on MW is NOT making it unless they've got a viable plan to increase their income. I declined down to MW-style jobs for about a year and a half after college when the recession hit and as a result I was in the first round of layoffs. I did NOT make it... I used credit cards to keep myself going, was a frugal as possible to keep it manageable... but I was doing the whole transfer balance to a new 0% apr card every year thing for a while. I knew that sooner or later I would get a better job and I'd pay those cards off, which did happen.

I just heard a story on the radio today about former foster children who get turned out into the world at age 18-19 and end up homeless. It talked about they are the most vulnerable type of homeless, especially the girls... but the guys too not in much better shape. Very easy for them to fall into prostitution, drugs, drug running, crime, etc... Many of us on this board take for granted how valuable our upbringing was. Most of us came from 2-parent households that taught us those life skills. It's one of the things I meant by "subsidy." It's not dollars and cents but it's extremely valuable. More valuable than dollars, even. Those are the kinds of people who can only command MW jobs who are in a much worse situation.

Most of us also worked MW-style jobs when we were young, in college, saving for college or when we got laid off or something like that. I don't consider that real poverty. It's a temporary situation.

Minimum wage WAS meant to be a "bare minimum" wage to live on. Franklin Roosevelt said as much when he signed the legislation back in the 1930s. What we take for granted is that there were more ways to live on a bare minimum income in those days, living costs were less. Our MW has not kept pace with inflation... it should be around $11.00 at least, probably $12-12.50. Also we've made living more expensive. I would prefer we raised national minimum wage to around $11 and MORE IMPORTANTLY, do something on the housing supply side to make living more affordable.

I'd prefer to see single room occupancies make a comeback. Probably the easiest way to accomplish that is through AirBnB style initiatives.
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