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Yep, here we go again. Find a way to get out of paying bills you ran up. Ignore the bills until the company sends it to a collection company. Wait for the collection company to make some technical error, then use that to make them responisble for your spending habits. Don't actually attempt to pay for the stuff you bought. Don't make good on the agreement you signed to pay the credit card company for they stuff they bought for you. Don't try to make arrangements to pay the bills when & under conditions that you can manage. No no, ignore them, pretend you don't see them, make them spend time & money on persuing it, then only respond if you get to court, or if they miss a comma in a document, and even then only to see if you can use it agaisnt them to somehow avoid paying your bills. Hope that they'll be so busy chasing people that owe them more than you owe them that they won't have the time or inclination to bother with your piddly debt.
Is this the new American Way? What the hell happened to personal responsibility, paying your debts, and doing unto others as you would have others do unto you?
Ok Buddy let me explain something to you.. First of all I never advocated not paying your debts, I simply am giving objective advice. I have been involved in the collection industry for over 10 years.
Let me give you an example..
Guy or Gal takes out a loan with XYZ bank for $10,000 and pays on time for 6 months.. Lets the person who took out the loan loses their job. They call the creditor and say hey lost my job, Money is tight but I am not running from my debt. Lets say it takes that person 90 days to get a new job and is now ready and able to pay their debt.. Ooops to late, now because of the housing debacle banks are writing off all unsecured debt up to 30K in 90
days and taking it as a loss on their financial statement.. At this time the creditor wouldnt take the money if you offered it to them because they have already taken a chargeoff.
So here you have a consumer who is ready to pay but now the debt has been sold to a collection agency, or bad debt buyer. This debt goes for .15 on the dollar. So a $10,000 debt wholesale sells for only $1,500..
Ok so lets see who is really the criminal the consumer who had some issues was ready to pay and the bank already wrote off the debt, or the junk debt buyer who stands to make $7,000-$8,000 profit on a debt they paid $1500 for?
In my opinion the bad debt buyer bought a non performing asset. They bought this debt knowing the original creditor could not collect and they took the risk. I myself as a consumer if I found myself in the position would not pay a penny more then a 100% profit margin to the debt buyer. So I would settle for $3,000 on a $10,000 debt that was bought for only $1,500. That's a nice profit margin for the collection agency. So you can say what you want but in my humble opinion once the original creditor walks away from the debt the debt buyer is the only one making any money.. The original creditor already wiped their hands of the whole situation. So at that point It's a game to pay the least amount you can. Technically at that point you are not paying your debt, your debt has been wiped away by the creditor you are simply paying a debt buying agency that has only pennies invested compared to the original creditor.
Ok Buddy let me explain something to you.. First of all I never advocated not paying your debts, I simply am giving objective advice. I have been involved in the collection industry for over 10 years.
Let me give you an example..
Guy or Gal takes out a loan with XYZ bank for $10,000 and pays on time for 6 months.. Lets the person who took out the loan loses their job. They call the creditor and say hey lost my job, Money is tight but I am not running from my debt. Lets say it takes that person 90 days to get a new job and is now ready and able to pay their debt.. Ooops to late, now because of the housing debacle banks are writing off all unsecured debt up to 30K in 90
days and taking it as a loss on their financial statement.. At this time the creditor wouldnt take the money if you offered it to them because they have already taken a chargeoff.
So here you have a consumer who is ready to pay but now the debt has been sold to a collection agency, or bad debt buyer. This debt goes for .15 on the dollar. So a $10,000 debt wholesale sells for only $1,500..
Ok so lets see who is really the criminal the consumer who had some issues was ready to pay and the bank already wrote off the debt, or the junk debt buyer who stands to make $7,000-$8,000 profit on a debt they paid $1500 for?
In my opinion the bad debt buyer bought a non performing asset. They bought this debt knowing the original creditor could not collect and they took the risk. I myself as a consumer if I found myself in the position would not pay a penny more then a 100% profit margin to the debt buyer. So I would settle for $3,000 on a $10,000 debt that was bought for only $1,500. That's a nice profit margin for the collection agency. So you can say what you want but in my humble opinion once the original creditor walks away from the debt the debt buyer is the only one making any money.. The original creditor already wiped their hands of the whole situation. So at that point It's a game to pay the least amount you can. Technically at that point you are not paying your debt, your debt has been wiped away by the creditor you are simply paying a debt buying agency that has only pennies invested compared to the original creditor.
The junk debt buyer doesnt pay $.15 on the dollar for years after a default when the repayment percentage is very low. Before this time, its around $.50 on the dollar or higher.
Most states have laws about collection agency harrassment ;call the attorney general's office. But that said they will just keep adding fees to the debt. Best that you file for bankrupsy if you can.That is unless you just want to never buy anyhting on credit again. Any large debts they may file a civil action which often times goes uncontested then they get a judgemant;file on properety and wait for you to try to sale.
I'm not your buddy.
You may find that people are more likely to read & respond to your posts if you don't sound quite so condescending and obnoxious. Especiallly if you are going to wait almost 4 months after the post is made before you bother to respond.
In the next couple years it will get pretty crazy look at whats happening with mortgages, soon the same thing will happen with credit card debt. The credit card companies were giving credit cards to anyone with a pulse and there time is on the way. They will be so overwhelmed they cant pursue people.
Agreed. "Dropping the keys in the mail" (to your former house) has now become mainstream. Some folks are now doing the same with keys to SUVs and other fancy, high-priced vehicles. As for credit cards, they are already overwhelmed. And the worst has not begun yet.
To those righteous persons who pay promptly and feel smug about putting down others who cannot, consider this: banksters and mortgagers and credit-card purveyors are no angels. In most cases a debtor does not actually owe the money to them. What has happened is the miracle of "securitization", where the debt is immediately sold to a hedge fund and is sliced and diced and sold off to investors - those are the people getting stuck with this debt, not the original purveyors of it. Investors know that their investments can be risky, and they voluntarily took that risk out of greed for higher returns. In the end, this whole "credit crisis" is about greed. Banksters no longer satisfied with making 50 cents; they won't bother for less than 50 bucks now. It's all crumbling.
The greed of the banksters and hedge fund managers (who get higher bonuses than most of us ever dream of) is what's behind the current credit crisis. It will likely take down the whole economy with it - globally, not just here in the US. The entire globe is now inter-connected economically. Yes, life will go on. A decade or more from now, we will have a chastened generation of folks who want no debt in their lives. Sorta like the survivors of the great depression, who had the 'waste not - want not' mentality. And then, very gradually, over the better part of this century, it will creep back in again. You can't change human nature.
Agreed. "Dropping the keys in the mail" (to your former house) has now become mainstream. Some folks are now doing the same with keys to SUVs and other fancy, high-priced vehicles. As for credit cards, they are already overwhelmed. And the worst has not begun yet.
To those righteous persons who pay promptly and feel smug about putting down others who cannot, consider this: banksters and mortgagers and credit-card purveyors are no angels. In most cases a debtor does not actually owe the money to them. What has happened is the miracle of "securitization", where the debt is immediately sold to a hedge fund and is sliced and diced and sold off to investors - those are the people getting stuck with this debt, not the original purveyors of it. Investors know that their investments can be risky, and they voluntarily took that risk out of greed for higher returns. In the end, this whole "credit crisis" is about greed. Banksters no longer satisfied with making 50 cents; they won't bother for less than 50 bucks now. It's all crumbling.
Why are the people who pay promptly, only buy what they know they can afford, and advocate the payment of ones debt, labeled as self righteous & smug? Why not responsible, honest, intelligent, & thoughtful? And I've not seen very many people putting down others for not being able to pay their bills. The issue is with those who CHOOSE to not pay their bills. They look for loopholes & ways out of paying debt that they incurred. They complain about the collection process, decrying the collection agencies as monsters & terrible heartless people who should be ignored for as long as possible, them made to jump through a serios of hoops & over a host of hurdles, to collect a debt that is legally owed. And then, the same people who say don't pay the colection agencies, look for the loophole, only pay 15 cents on the dollar, these same people will next week complain that credit histories & credit reporting agencies are being unair. They want to take advantage of the credit industry, borrow money to buy all the things they want, and then forget the debt and have it not affect them. It doesn't work that way.
For me, it comes down to this; You borrowed money from someone or some company. You promised to pay it back. So pay the debt. And if you don't pay the debt, any company that is considering lending you more money has the right to see your payback history. The amount of money the bank wants to make is irellevant. They lent you a certain amount, under certain conditions. Pay it back.
Last edited by Bill Keegan; 07-09-2008 at 10:11 AM..
Reason: typos
The junk debt buyer doesnt pay $.15 on the dollar for years after a default when the repayment percentage is very low. Before this time, its around $.50 on the dollar or higher.
Another person who doesn't know what they're talking about.
Um, excuse me, it's pennies on the dollar, not $0.50. Most junk debt buyers pay $0.013 to $0.026 per $1.00 of debt.
And yes, that 2.6 cents.
From Hartman v. Asset Acceptance
Quote:
BY MR. SHANE:
9 Q Now I would like you to look -- let me ask you this
10 question straightforward. Are the accounts that -- you're
11 going to have to educate me a little bit about how these
12 accounts are purchased, so let's just start with that.
13 You just didn't purchase the account
14 of Lois Hartman individually, correct?
15 A Correct.
16 Q Okay. Her account was purchased along with many other
17 accounts, correct?
18 A Correct.
19 Q How many would you say?
20 A I don't remember the file at all specifically, so I
21 couldn't comment to that.
22 Q But you -- it was purchased in bulk with a number of other
23 accounts. That is the --
24 A Yes.
25 Q What you're -- the same is true with the Etapa account?
0028
1 A What? What is your --
2 Q That it was purchased along with a whole bunch of other
3 accounts, not individually or separately?
4 A Correct.
5 Q With respect to Hartman, you are not aware of how many
6 other accounts were purchased, is that your testimony?
7 A Correct.
8 Q Can you give an estimate?
9 A I can't. I'm not -- I'd have to re-familiarize myself
10 with it.
11 Q I'm trying to determine just exactly what -- do you
12 understand that in the case of Lois Hartman you eventually
13 sued for $2,542.00?
14 A I wasn't aware.
15 Q Okay. That is the amount that was asked for in the
16 Complaint. Do you have any -- that was eventually used in
17 the Adams County Court in Adams County, Ohio. Do you have
18 any reason to doubt that that is a correct amount, or that
19 is the amount that was sued or requested in a lawsuit?
20 A Was your question do I have any reason to doubt that?
21 Q Yes.
22 A No.
23 Q Okay, so I guess what I'm trying to find out here is how
24 much money did you pay, and when I say you I mean Asset,
25 pay for that account that you purchased?
0029
1 MR. GENTRY: Objection as to
2 relevance.
3 To the extent you can answer, go
4 ahead.
5 THE WITNESS: I don't recall what I
6 paid for that file.
7 BY MR. SHANE:
8 Q Did you pay $2,542.00?
9 MR. GENTRY: The same objection.
10 Go ahead.
11 THE WITNESS: No.
12 BY MR. SHANE:
13 Q Okay. Is it possible to say, because I think you just
14 said that you buy accounts in bulk, and in this particular
15 case involving Lois Hartman apparently, do you know who
16 you purchased the account from?
17 A According to this contract that you say that she was
18 a member of, it would be Citibank.
19 Q Okay. What is it -- is there a way of determining, at
20 least from a percentage standpoint, what percentage of the
21 outstanding balance on each account that you purchased?
22 Do you understand my question?
23 A I believe so, and the answer is I don't recall.
24 Q You don't recall what?
25 A The percentage of the outstanding balance that we paid
0030
1 for.
2 Q What are the range of percentages for which you might buy
3 accounts in bulk?
4 A The range can vary quite a deal.
5 Q Well, you --
6 A I don't know the exact high or low, so --
7 MR. SHANE: Boyd, she was asked in
8 this Request, in this document request, one of the things
9 that was asked for was the consideration paid for the
10 acquisition of the named plaintiff's account. Are you
11 saying that you produced a witness who is not able to
12 answer that question?
13 MR. GENTRY: Well, I guess --
14 MR. SHANE: And you're objecting to
15 the question that I'm asking, when that specifically what
16 was contained in the 30(b)(6) Notice.
17 MR. GENTRY: I'm still entitled to
18 object to it, but you can ask her to the extent to what
19 she knows, and I believe she already testified she didn't
20 remember exactly on -- at the time they purchased the
21 Hartman account, how much they -- she doesn't remember how
22 much money, consideration was given for that account, and
23 she -- as I understand, she is the person who would know,
24 if anybody does know.
25
0031
1 BY MR. SHANE:
2 Q Is there anybody else in the company that can answer that
3 question?
4 A Going off of their memory or recollection, probably -- I
5 don't know of anyone.
6 Q Ma'am, we're -- I feel we're entitled to know how much you
7 paid for that account. That's part of our case here,
8 okay?
9 Now you said that there was something
10 about a range of -- you didn't pay face value for the
11 account; is that correct?
12 A Correct.
13 Q Okay, so I'm asking you, then, did you pay half the face
14 value? Did you pay a tenth of the face value?
15 MR. GENTRY: Objection.
16 THE WITNESS: I don't know exactly
17 what we paid.
18 MR. SHANE: I'm not going to ask you
19 exactly what you paid.
20 BY MR. SHANE:
21 Q I'm just asking you if you can at least give me an
22 estimate of the range that you paid for this account?
23 A I'd feel confident my answer would be correct if I said it
24 was less than ten cents, ten percent.
25 Q Okay, so you feel confident that -- let's just take the
0032
1 Lois Hartman bulk purchase, the whole purchase that
2 included Lois Hartman's account, whatever that was, the
3 total number of accounts of which I don't think you can
4 answer, correct?
5 A Correct.
6 Q You think a fair and accurate estimate would be that you
7 paid ten cents on the dollar?
8 A I believe I said less than ten cents on the dollar.
9 Q Okay. As much as ten percent, or less than ten percent?
10 Would it be eight cents?
11 A I -- again I'm not going to guess when I don't actually --
12 I haven't familiarized myself with this contract. Again
13 I'm not going to guess.
14 Q But it's less than ten percent?
15 A I believe so.
16 Q Okay, so I'm just going to -- if you don't mind, help me
17 out with a little bit of education for me about how your
18 company -- how a debt acquisition company works.
19 You purchase distressed or defaulted
20 debt, correct?
21 A Correct.
22 Q And you purchase it at less than face value.
23 A Correct.
24 Q And you purchased it for say -- is it accurate pennies on
25 the dollar?
0033
1 MR. GENTRY: Objection. She --
2 BY MR. SHANE:
3 Q Is that an accurate statement? You purchase it for
4 pennies on the dollar?
5 MR. GENTRY: Objection. She already
6 testified what she knew about it.
7 I mean if you would characterize it as
8 the same way, pennies on the dollar, then you can answer.
9 THE WITNESS: Yes.
10 MR. SHANE: You would, okay.
11 BY MR. SHANE:
12 Q Now do you have -- is that pretty much the same with
13 respect to any account that you acquire?
14 MR. GENTRY: Objection.
15 THE WITNESS: Is what the same?
16 MR. SHANE: What you just testified
17 to, that you purchase it at a discount rate for pennies on
18 the dollar.
19 THE WITNESS: Yes.
We had a debt, that we completely forgot about. Thanks to the advice on this and several other threads, we're not paying the collection agency, but just the original debt... and if you go by the number of threatening messages I receive about a "personal matter" that will cause "big trouble" for me, I'm guessing they aren't too happy about it.
Thanks for the advice guys! I went ahead and sent payment to the original debtor. Turns out they hadn't sold the debt... but the Customer Service rep said that some collection agency gets into their files, contacts customers more than 30 days overdue, gets them to send payment to them, and uses that as leverage to buy the debt. And then it ends up on your credit report. As the original debtor is someone who does NOT report to the credit agencies, the debt will not end up on our credit report.
I was online specifically to make an online payment, when I decided to check the board last week. If I hadn't read your advice, it wouldn't have occurred to me to call the original debtor the next morning, instead of outright paying the debt collector!
I'm new here and just wondering if anyone out there has had a judgement against them? I went to court this am, and had no attorney, I have no job ( for five years) I have nothing, no property,no nothing,. I still lost. I am just about homeless, but someone took me in., but the judge didn't seem to care. The collection agency won. Now what? I live in ohio, if i ever find a job, how much will they take? I really doubt that I will ever work again, but need to know what will happen now? Thank you
If you can not pay your bills, or are having trouble
DO NOT SEND A LETTER STATING THAT!
DO NOT SEND A LETTER REQUESTING A CEASE AND DESIST
If you have assets, and are trying to avoid paying something, theworst thing you can do is send a letter requesting calls to cease.
As soon as you go behind, if your balance qualifies, they will send that to their attorneys...
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