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Old 01-14-2018, 10:54 PM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,481,564 times
Reputation: 15498

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FYI we have free tax funded "government" housing, it's call the penitentiary... and most people would prefer to not live there
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Old 01-15-2018, 05:08 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,328,196 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
Zoning isn't the issue, it's the fact that you live in a place with high-demand expensive RE, because there are people there ready and able to pay what it costs. It's how the market works.

When I lived in Redondo Beach in the late 80s, there were little houses selling for $500k. The developers would tear down the houses and build a dozen 3 story condos where the house stood. The condos were $350k each. That's the sort of thing that happens when zoning allows a greater density. No one is going to build cheap housing unless it's a cheap neighborhood. Ever.

D.U.H. Two-thirds of this city is zoned single-family. Homeowners won't (politically) allow upzoning.

If you can't build apartments in two-thirds of the city, zoning is the problem, because there is PLENTY of land on which apartments theoretically COULD be built.

And if apartments are allowed on only one-third of the land, what do you think THAT does to land prices and to development costs? Where high-rise apartments are allowed locally, high-rise apartments are being built because that is the ONLY thing that pencils out here..
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Old 01-15-2018, 05:10 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,328,196 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
you saying "market demand increases", which market is this? because homeless and poor people of the area are not the "market" when they can't afford to buy a house

you have to actually be part of the market to be part of the "market demand"

the "market" for poor people are in low col area, they refuse to go there, so why do they get to be part of the "luxury" market of high col housing?

Ppl are paying $700/mo to live in overcrowded rentals. That is real demand.

Why do they get to be part of high col housing? Because they were there first before it became high col.
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Old 01-15-2018, 05:21 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,328,196 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
freemkt apparently still doesn't understand "supply and demand". He thinks his "demand" for cheap housing in an expensive neighborhood would naturally be supplied if only the government would allow it.

If demand is high, then prices will naturally be high. Poor people have to live in places where demand is low.

What made the neighborhood expensive? Most neighborhoods here were not expensive 15 years ago.

What changed is that demand increased but supply did not keep up due to zoning restrictions, i.e. supply was artificially restricted by government.
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Old 01-15-2018, 06:59 AM
 
1,913 posts, read 2,259,366 times
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ask Peter Buffett son of Warren Buffett he and his wife administer the NOVO foundation and lives comfortably on less than 7 figures a year. he will tell you it all boils down to greed , where there is excessive greed their is inequality.
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Old 01-15-2018, 09:18 AM
 
1,514 posts, read 882,695 times
Reputation: 1961
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilberry View Post
ask Peter Buffett son of Warren Buffett he and his wife administer the NOVO foundation and lives comfortably on less than 7 figures a year. he will tell you it all boils down to greed , where there is excessive greed their is inequality.
Bingo! Winner winner chicken dinner!

Shortest answer to this thread?: Excessive human greed leads to inequality.
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,552,899 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
Zoning and other code requirements (square footage minimums, parking requirements) are a big driver for what gets built, and they specifically disallow many types that could help with affordability.
This is because people who live and own property in an area don't want it turned into a ghetto. Because it is desirable RE, they don't need to make it affordable in order to sell. Shouldn't people be able to exercise some control over how their neighborhood is designed? I guarantee you'd be pissed if you bought a $1M house and someone put "affordable housing" on the lot next to it.

The fallacy that you and freemkt seem to be suffering under is that you are unable to vote with your feet. There are *loads* of places in the US where I can't afford to live, but I've wasted zero seconds worrying about it. I just moved. Most of the country is affordable even on a low wage. You don't have to pay half your income to live in a tiny room either, you can get a decent apartment or even buy a house! Then you can be one of those evil owners who actually has a stake in what happens!
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,552,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txbullsfan View Post
Excessive human greed leads to inequality.
Greed exists everywhere. Most places pass laws to keep in check rather than promote it.
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:30 AM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,481,564 times
Reputation: 15498
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Ppl are paying $700/mo to live in overcrowded rentals. That is real demand.

Why do they get to be part of high col housing? Because they were there first before it became high col.
and people get displaced by progress all the time

being there first doesn't mean ****, ask the indians how they liked being "first" before they got displaced
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,552,899 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord View Post
Betting against astronomically high inequality is betting against every sample in history. Anytime there was a peaceful and prosperous time, predatory / crony capitalism developed that concentrated almost all wealth to a few families/dynasties.
That all changed with the industrial revolution.

Consumer capitalism doesn't work at all unless consumers share in productivity gains. That's why the last 200 years has seen such a great increase in prosperity, and why developed countries go to great lengths to even out wealth/income. When the income in the US was most even was also our most prosperous period.

But about 40 years ago we saw another big change. Using fiat currency, global trade, and finance (and a bunch of other policy changes), the rich have been able to reduce their dependence on consumer income. So now they are taking every increase in the size of the pie, and we constantly get more debt to keep consumption rising.
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