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Even without income total there’s context as it represents the march to financial independence. The person making 30k doesn’t need nearly as much money to be fi
Really?
There is some floor of money that you can't really go below to independently subsist.
In my area, it's hard to find even a trailer to rent for under $500/month close to the job centers for this area, such as those area. Let's say you split that for $250 with a roommate. It's a crappy life.
You eat off dollar menus and cheap crap at the grocery store. Minimal electricity usage. Cell and internet are basically required these days for job hunting, so I'd include a minimal plan. Auto insurance. Health insurance. Transportation.
A $30,000 person here can get by but it is a crappy lifestyle. Doubly so in more expensive locations. They can't save percentage wise what someone even at $100,000 could and still subsist, much less be close to normal.
Well it's her husbands income. I think she walks dogs.
Yeaaaaassss!!! He's a high income earner and he gives ALL his monies to me. I'm super special and RICH and I do none of the work!!! Yeah baby!!! Show me the money!!!
Well it's her husbands income. I think she walks dogs.
Speaking of this. This is another thing I’ve seen a lot in the FI community. People only count their own income when factoring savings. So let’s say my wife makes $100k/yr and so do I. I only pay half the rent/mortgage, half of groceries, etc. if my wife spends more than me on eating out, clothing, etc. I don’t have to count that as my spending. It may be pretty easy for one part of a Dink couple to live off of $20-$30k/yr.
Speaking of this. This is another thing I’ve seen a lot in the FI community. People only count their own income when factoring savings. So let’s say my wife makes $100k/yr and so do I. I only pay half the rent/mortgage, half of groceries, etc. if my wife spends more than me on eating out, clothing, etc. I don’t have to count that as my spending. It may be pretty easy for one part of a Dink couple to live off of $20-$30k/yr.
Which bloggers are you referring to? I haven't noticed this trend. What I do notice is that a lot of the FI community pulls out business expenses from their monthly expense report and I do think many of them are, eh-hem, "generous" in their subtractions. Take MMM for example and what his yearly spending is (or was.. I actually sorta stopped following him a few years ago because of what I consider to be this disingenuous quality). You look at the photos of his bike, his house, travels, his wife's workshop area and whatnot and you think to yourself, "all that costs money.. where is the accounting going into and coming out from?". I think it's been mentioned in this forum even. Just something doesn't add up.
And it has to be through the business expenses. Even I do this on a tiny, tiny level. I buy treats for the animals and chocolates and cards for the pet owners. Now do you think I fully keep those treats, cards and chocolate separate from personal consumption? Mostly yes, but sometimes not.. I've used the cards for other purposes and certainly I've had some of the chocolate.
It's one of those things that drives me crazy about the FI community, but it's also alluring which leads me to questions similar to what I asked in this thread.
There is some floor of money that you can't really go below to independently subsist.
In my area, it's hard to find even a trailer to rent for under $500/month close to the job centers for this area, such as those area. Let's say you split that for $250 with a roommate. It's a crappy life.
You eat off dollar menus and cheap crap at the grocery store. Minimal electricity usage. Cell and internet are basically required these days for job hunting, so I'd include a minimal plan. Auto insurance. Health insurance. Transportation.
A $30,000 person here can get by but it is a crappy lifestyle. Doubly so in more expensive locations. They can't save percentage wise what someone even at $100,000 could and still subsist, much less be close to normal.
You may think it’s crappy and I may think it’s crappy but that’s not relevant
Which bloggers are you referring to? I haven't noticed this trend. What I do notice is that a lot of the FI community pulls out business expenses from their monthly expense report and I do think many of them are, eh-hem, "generous" in their subtractions. Take MMM for example and what his yearly spending is (or was.. I actually sorta stopped following him a few years ago because of what I consider to be this disingenuous quality). You look at the photos of his bike, his house, travels, his wife's workshop area and whatnot and you think to yourself, "all that costs money.. where is the accounting going into and coming out from?". I think it's been mentioned in this forum even. Just something doesn't add up.
And it has to be through the business expenses. Even I do this on a tiny, tiny level. I buy treats for the animals and chocolates and cards for the pet owners. Now do you think I fully keep those treats, cards and chocolate separate from personal consumption? Mostly yes, but sometimes not.. I've used the cards for other purposes and certainly I've had some of the chocolate.
It's one of those things that drives me crazy about the FI community, but it's also alluring which leads me to questions similar to what I asked in this thread.
That's because those lifestyles they peddle aren't sustainable over the long term. It's total BS to pretend you will live your life like a pauper for decades with millions in the bank.
Living cheaply has allowed my wife and I to save money and invest it but the entire reason we do so is to be financially indepedent in a suitable middle class lifestyle. I have zero interest in living my life like I have the last decade.
Assuming we stay employed in jobs we actually really like it also allows us to live a very comfortable life using our salaries as fun money. The important thing to keep in mind is to keep expenses low. Low taxes on your home, inexpensive car insurance, etc. so that you can continue your life style if the paychecks stop or you decide to quit your job.
That's because those lifestyles they peddle aren't sustainable over the long term. It's total BS to pretend you will live your life like a pauper for decades with millions in the bank.
Living cheaply has allowed my wife and I to save money and invest it but the entire reason we do so is to be financially indepedent in a suitable middle class lifestyle. I have zero interest in living my life like I have the last decade.
Assuming we stay employed in jobs we actually really like it also allows us to live a very comfortable life using our salaries as fun money. The important thing to keep in mind is to keep expenses low. Low taxes on your home, inexpensive car insurance, etc. so that you can continue your life style if the paychecks stop or you decide to quit your job.
Exactly right - the only way you can force yourself to save 40% and up of your money is to know that there is somehow an end in sight. There has to be some reward...but of course if your COL goes up after "retirement" you'll have to work that much longer.
I think many people fool themselves that they can keep living that way and then they find they have to start working part time (aka "sidegigs") and essentially come out of retirement because it is not sustainable.
To each their own. There is no right or wrong amount to save. It just depends on if you want to live better now, and not so well later, or live more frugally now, and have a more secure retirement later. Both have risks, and rewards. Just make sure you make an informed decision.
This sounds good in theory, but in practice, there really is a percentage that most people shouldn't go below. Most people don't save enough. And most of them blame someone or something else for the fact that they don't save enough. So when they get to be old, they end up being victims of circumstance and acting as if no other outcome was possible--which is not true 80% of the time. Practically no old broke person says "Hey, I spent almost everything I had when I was younger, so I'm ok with the fact that I'm barely getting by in my old age".
There is some floor of money that you can't really go below to independently subsist.
In my area, it's hard to find even a trailer to rent for under $500/month close to the job centers for this area, such as those area. Let's say you split that for $250 with a roommate. It's a crappy life.
You eat off dollar menus and cheap crap at the grocery store. Minimal electricity usage. Cell and internet are basically required these days for job hunting, so I'd include a minimal plan. Auto insurance. Health insurance. Transportation.
A $30,000 person here can get by but it is a crappy lifestyle. Doubly so in more expensive locations. They can't save percentage wise what someone even at $100,000 could and still subsist, much less be close to normal.
I'd agree it's not a great lifestyle. But the point you're missing if they make 30k and live the lifestyle you outline for a period of time, is they typically won't have to live that way forever. I had roommates from age 26 to 35. That choice set me up for having the options that I do now, at age 47. While not financially independent, I could move to a cheaper metro area in the U.S. and work part time or to a cheaper country like Thailand and not have to work another day in my life while steadily upgrading my lifestyle over time. I'm not interested in exercising either of those options right now--but just knowing I have them sure does feel good.
Having roommates is not the end of the world. People with professional level incomes in expensive metro areas do it all the time until their 30s.
It's like that hokey saying from Dave Ramsey--"Live like no one else (now), so you can live and give like no one else (later)". Hokey, but true.
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