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Old 10-07-2018, 11:00 PM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
14,518 posts, read 15,154,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
I don’t have a yard because I didn’t want one but I do have a house, what say you? Is it just an excuse? Am I poor? Or did I really not want a yard?
I have a very nice yard and 180 degree view from up in the hills. (I can see Russia from my bedroom window! ) I do have a lawn mower, his name is Fidel. He has a key to my gate and I set him up each January for 12 months of auto-pay. I could possibly die here and have my house and yard still look nice a year after my death, and my desiccated body still inside if nobody notices I'm not around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom View Post
We did the single family house thing once a lot time ago and I learned that spending the weekend cleaning up the yard or fretting over rooftops and siding is just not our thing.
I watched my handyman put up my new weather station and patch my roof today, for a few minutes, got bored and went inside to post on CD. He was happy to leave after I squiggled a bit on a little piece of paper. FI, remember? FI people don't do this kind of stuff, they just write a trivial check and let somebody else do the heavy lifting.
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Old 10-07-2018, 11:49 PM
 
25,913 posts, read 28,290,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
I'm not sure who you're referring to here. Most blogs I've seen from FIRE types have relatively conservative projections and SWR in the 3-4% range, if there is some optimistic wave of folks predicting massive returns 10%+ forever I've not noticed it, nor have I encountered many that believe a long period of a stagnant market (like US from 1966+) should be ignored since it's impossible.

I'm sure there are examples of what you mention but to me it sure doesn't seem as pervasive as you're implying, if anything seems like the opposite where folks are using SWRs of 3% etc. despite calculators saying that with social security they could take a lot higher.
This is also my observation. It seems to me most folks are using the 4% rule as the upper limit of their withdrawals.
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Olympus Mons, Mars
5,581 posts, read 8,517,419 times
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New Documentary on the topic.. and yes it is the same couple featured again LOL!

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Old 10-08-2018, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Suburban wasteland of NC
312 posts, read 183,217 times
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The couple making the movie aren't FI yet. I had to watch the trailer twice, I found it confusing at first.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...he-documentary explained it better than that trailer. Apparently he's a filmmaker who decided to take on a project about FI. A good angle to put in the movie is that he decides to go on the FI path himself and convince his wife to do so also.

It looks like they talk to Paula Pant, JL Collins, Pete Adeney (aka MMM), Kristy & Bryce (aka Millennial Revolution from the OP in this thread), and many others who I don't immediately recognize over the course of the film. Looks interesting, I'll probably watch it. I'll probably have to watch it without the wife though, she kept rolling her eyes at the spouse in the trailer who apparently can't drive a $5,000 car. Of course they may just be playing roles to generate inter couple debate in order to spice up the movie.
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Old 10-08-2018, 06:01 AM
 
4,531 posts, read 4,696,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
I'm not sure who you're referring to here. Most blogs I've seen from FIRE types have relatively conservative projections and SWR in the 3-4% range, if there is some optimistic wave of folks predicting massive returns 10%+ forever I've not noticed it, nor have I encountered many that believe a long period of a stagnant market (like US from 1966+) should be ignored since it's impossible.

I'm sure there are examples of what you mention but to me it sure doesn't seem as pervasive as you're implying, if anything seems like the opposite where folks are using SWRs of 3% etc. despite calculators saying that with social security they could take a lot higher.
I see a lot of people saying retiring at around 40 with a 4% SWR is conservative. Remember the 4% SWR includes inflation, which 30 years from now could easily be 100%+ higher than it is today and 40 years from now could be 200%+ higher. My main point is all of the simulations on previous market data typically only show a 4% SWR rate works 95% of the time given our historic market returns, where a 3% SWR rate works 99% of the time, but again given our historic market returns.

Here is an article about the Nikkei, just to provide context from other countries. https://qz.com/1103091/nikkei-225-th...its-1989-peak/


The 20 year high of the Nikkei was still 1/2 of it's previous high in 1989. If something like that happens (which isn't impossible) it doesn't matter what your SWR is.

Here is a post from Wade Pfau on the subject:

https://retirementresearcher.com/trinity-study-updates/

Quote:
3a: The 4% rule has not held up nearly as well in most other developed market countries as it has in the U.S.
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:49 AM
 
25,913 posts, read 28,290,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockyman View Post
Nah, I already mentioned in another post I did in 20. Two childless, carless, engineers who make more than the average couple sock and invest their money quit their guaranteed jobs so they can make money starting blogs, charging lectures, and their potential book deal. Not to mention some paid appearances on TV.
You somehow seem to portray what they've done as somehow wrong or unseemly. Other DINK couples could do the same, but most will not.

As far as them not being able to buy a house? Well I think they would agree they couldn't afford to buy one...which is why they didn't. Yet their whole point is lots of other couples in their position would (and typically do) buy houses they really can't afford. Then they end up house poor for at least a decade, end up praying nothing goes wrong (job loss, etc.), have little in the way of retirement savings and even less flexibility. At this point, I'm sure they could live in a cheaper area of Canada besides the Toronto metro area if they wanted to, but they don't want to. Or they could take their $1.2 M portfolio and buy something with it. But they don't want most of their money going to a house if it means they both have to go back to working 8-5 jobs.

In really expensive metro areas, you are often forced into this position of having to choose between living modestly and having good retirement savings or buying a house/condo but being broke and having minimal retirement savings. So I can relate to them completely. I didn't care that much about the house and went for having good retirement savings. If you can't have everything you want, it's all about choosing what's most important to you.

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 10-08-2018 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:28 AM
 
4,531 posts, read 4,696,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
You somehow seem to portray what they've done as somehow wrong or unseemly. Other DINK couples could do the same, but most will not.

As far as them not being able to buy a house? Well I think they would agree they couldn't afford to buy one...which is why they didn't. Yet their whole point is lots of other couples in their position would (and typically do) buy houses they really can't afford. Then they end up house poor for at least a decade, end up praying nothing goes wrong (job loss, etc.), have little in the way of retirement savings and even less flexibility. At this point, I'm sure they could live in a cheaper area of Canada besides the Toronto metro area if they wanted to, but they don't want to. Or they could take their $1.2 M portfolio and buy something with it. But they don't want most of their money going to a house if it means they both have to go back to working 8-5 jobs.

In really expensive metro areas, you are often forced into this position of having to choose between living modestly and having good retirement savings or buying a house/condo but being broke and having minimal retirement savings. So I can relate to them completely. I didn't care that much about the house and went for having good retirement savings. If you can't have everything you want, it's all about choosing what's most important to you.
And there are non-DINKs that did the same thing, although they don't travel the world full time.

This couple retired at 33/35 and have several kids and own their own home in North Carolina: https://rootofgood.com/
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:53 PM
 
25,913 posts, read 28,290,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
And there are non-DINKs that did the same thing, although they don't travel the world full time.

This couple retired at 33/35 and have several kids and own their own home in North Carolina: https://rootofgood.com/
Yes, exactly.

I am familiar with Root of Good. They do like to travel a lot, interestingly enough. Similar to the Millennial Revolution bloggers, they are good at travel hacking---they just don't travel year 'round, but use the same travel hacking principles.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:12 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,332 posts, read 39,595,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Yes, exactly.

I am familiar with Root of Good. They do like to travel a lot, interestingly enough. Similar to the Millennial Revolution bloggers, they are good at travel hacking---they just don't travel year 'round, but use the same travel hacking principles.
Hey, Thanks... Root of Good is doing it TOO! (with kids!)

Family long term travel is really a huge benefit. You meet so many more people / experience when traveling 'unconventionally' with kids.

I guess we were 'travel hacking' in the 1980's while homeschooling and taking 12 week 'field trips'.

Best was getting bumped on airline 3x in one day (entire family). That gave us enough travel credits to fly for at least that yr, and then we learned how to get bumped often! That worked excellent for 30+ yrs. but no more (UA issue, so now ALL airlines are reluctant to overbook) (I have only been bumped 2x this yr, some yrs I got bumped at least 2x / week!).

Over the years... learned lots... lots to learn.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:07 PM
 
1,929 posts, read 1,319,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
You somehow seem to portray what they've done as somehow wrong or unseemly. Other DINK couples could do the same, but most will not.
Most DINK couples with high paying jobs can definitely do the same thing. It's the couples with kids who have average paying jobs that can't do the same. Like a bunch of other posters stated I think the couple should have worked a few more years to build that investment egg. Also IMO they are not retired but working on another venture that pays them.
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