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Old 12-07-2018, 06:14 AM
 
4,539 posts, read 4,725,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...ong-2018-11-29

The talk about when FIRE goes wrong? Someone wrote about it. Not so much the running out of money part, hard to spend down so much money in such a short time that fire has been popular.
Yeah, but none of those are actual examples of FIRE. Gwen, who has a podcast and is actually a bit annoying, decided to jump into entrepeneurism. She did so extremely early, but at the time had support from her SO. She never claimed to be FI or RE, just that she was on that path. Is everyone who becomes a landlord and opens an Etsy store FIRE nowadays? The other couple admittedly quit their job with half the amount they said they needed for FIRE....of course that’s going to fail. The others were stories about people dying unexpectedly. I guess I didn’t realize that was only a FIRE thing. I’ll tell my wife her mom wouldn’t have died of cancer when she was 12 if her parents hadn’t been pursuing FIRE....oh wait...they weren’t.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,541 posts, read 17,525,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
One blogger suggested the acronym should be changed to FIOR for Financial Independence, Optional Retirement.
The "optionally retired" is key.

One thing about FIRE people is that many tend to be quite vocal about it, and some derive an income from that advocacy in forms of blogs or other media.

Most aren't just totally quitting and going incognito.
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
2,430 posts, read 3,657,283 times
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Back to the original post and linked article.


I am pretty sure I read about this same couple on another site which provided far more details. One significant comment early in the linked article is that both the husband and wife grew up very poor and continued to live well beneath what almost everyone else would describe as a bare bones existence.


The other article also included more details on their living arrangements. If the couple is indeed the same as in the other article, they bought a house and effectively turned it into an unlicensed boarding house in addition to their day jobs. Yes, their wages may have been $135K total but there was "under the table money" from their tenants which covered all housing costs, all utility costs, and a profit as well.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:13 PM
 
13,872 posts, read 7,381,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
The "optionally retired" is key.

One thing about FIRE people is that many tend to be quite vocal about it, and some derive an income from that advocacy in forms of blogs or other media.

Most aren't just totally quitting and going incognito.

Yeah, FIOR is a pretty good term for it. That's where I am in my life. At 60 1/2, I don't absolutely have to work but my cash flow if I stop working is quite a bit less than I've had my entire adult life. I telecommute so it's not like work is usually all that awful.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:13 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,040,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22003yo View Post
I am in my late 20s and have the FI part down but I have no plans of RE. I'd go crazy, traveling is fun but I'm pretty happy doing it just a couple times a year. I get tired when I'm abroad for longer than a couple weeks as it is. If I had a SO that was around me 24/7 I'd probably get tired pretty quickly. Since I have no plans of RE I can be more aggressive when it comes to investing, going for growth instead of just income. Call me crazy but I'd rather be intellectually stimulated and live a more luxurious life.
You won’t get bored. Don’t worry. If you need something to occupy your time start a business or something. I retired in my 20s...now I’m considering starting some kind of business with my play money. It’s fun to just work out plans in your head and figure out how you could make the numbers work. But I’m retired so some days I may not think about it all and pretend I’m a kid...sometimes it may be a week of thinking with little sleep.
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Old 12-07-2018, 11:14 PM
 
26,075 posts, read 28,473,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
The "optionally retired" is key.

One thing about FIRE people is that many tend to be quite vocal about it, and some derive an income from that advocacy in forms of blogs or other media.
Yes, people make such a big deal out of this. I think it's a variation of the "that's impossible / you're lying" themes we hear from naysayers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Most aren't just totally quitting and going incognito.
Actually, the percentage of people with money making money from blogs is quite small compared to all those who are financially independent who we never hear about.
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Old 12-07-2018, 11:15 PM
 
26,075 posts, read 28,473,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post
Back to the original post and linked article.


I am pretty sure I read about this same couple on another site which provided far more details. One significant comment early in the linked article is that both the husband and wife grew up very poor and continued to live well beneath what almost everyone else would describe as a bare bones existence.


The other article also included more details on their living arrangements. If the couple is indeed the same as in the other article, they bought a house and effectively turned it into an unlicensed boarding house in addition to their day jobs. Yes, their wages may have been $135K total but there was "under the table money" from their tenants which covered all housing costs, all utility costs, and a profit as well.
I could be wrong, but I don't think those are the same two sets of people.

All you have to do is run the math. This couple retired around 2014. So lets say they started working in January 2014 and retired in December 2013 and made 135K in their last year of work. Even though thye saved around 70% of their income, I'll cut that back to 48% because I'll assume they didn't make as much and weren't saving that high a percentage at the beginning.

So, we'll start with 135K, cut out 35% for taxes (probably a high estimate), which leaves us with $100k. Then we'll reduce their spending to 52k a year, which leaves 48k to save, or $4,000 a month. I'm also not including any employer 401k matches for the entire 10 year period, which seems very unlikely

$4000 a month in Vanguard Total Stock Market Index fund from Jan 2004 to Dec. 2013 would have grown to $823,119 by December 2013.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/...nalysisResults

If they saved 60% of their take home, that would be $5000 per month, and that would've take their balance over $1M.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/...nalysisResults

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 12-07-2018 at 11:30 PM..
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Old 12-10-2018, 04:03 PM
 
7,888 posts, read 5,024,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary View Post
... I've been unemployed for stretches at a time and while I had money to support myself, and while it was nice at first being "fee" after a few weeks, I got really bored. I not only wanted a job for money again, but to have a purpose/something to do. Hobbies, reading, and volunteering only take up so much time. I kept sleeping my life away (when not job hunting) while unemployed. Plus, I noticed quite a few of the people I know (from work who retired and people in my neighborhood) get mentally softer when they retire. It's like they get slower and start aging rapidly.
Somber as the above description can be, it could actually get worse.

If a 30-year-old loses his/her job, then presumably (1) career is still early, and other employment options are forthcoming; or (2) it's possible to move back in with the parents. 20 years later, neither holds true. A person who's been saving assiduously for decades, without any particular intention to retire just yet, may find layoff and long-term unemployment becoming rebranded as "early retirement". This is financially possible, if one is frugal. But the chafing and mental oppression can be severe. Oversleeping and lingering in bed may sound wasteful and slovenly, but at least it's peaceful. Imagine instead that you can't sleep, because (1) you're terrified of what's happening in the stock market, and (2) you feel guilty and remorseful in being unable to find a decent job, because over the decades you've become "management material" and thus no longer competitive with fresh recruits.

Unarguably, it's better to have options. It's better to have several million in the one's portfolio, without good career prospects, than to have the same poor prospects but zero savings. But the point is that even the passive rocking-chair serenity of leisurely life is difficult to achieve, if one has a nervous, Type-A personality... if one is naturally neurotic, and on top of that, life so unfolds, that there's good cause feeding the neurosis.

Many of us have a conflicted and variegated relationship with our jobs, often dreaming of retirement, especially if we've been doing it for decades, and have been fortunate to have saved considerable money. And that's all OK. What's less OK is the adjustment awaiting us after taking the plunge, whether in accordance with plans and wishes, or suddenly, or involuntarily.
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:42 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,040,185 times
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I refused to dream of retirement. I saw too many people in my family wishing their life away so they would be closer to retirement. “If I can just make it 5 or 10 more years” is a phrase I heard A LOT. Or...”how much longer until you get to retire”.

The saddest thing about it was the ones that worked their whole life, retired and passed away a year or two later. Hell no, I’m not going out like that.
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Old 12-11-2018, 07:35 PM
 
18,845 posts, read 13,587,446 times
Reputation: 14261
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
I refused to dream of retirement. I saw too many people in my family wishing their life away so they would be closer to retirement. “If I can just make it 5 or 10 more years” is a phrase I heard A LOT. Or...”how much longer until you get to retire”.

The saddest thing about it was the ones that worked their whole life, retired and passed away a year or two later. Hell no, I’m not going out like that.

Is that how you funded your early retirement ?
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