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Old 12-03-2018, 09:32 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,307 posts, read 6,375,629 times
Reputation: 9937

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
At age 65, you have Social Security and Medicare as your backstop. In your 30s, you are young and healthy so health insurance seems unimportant. Having Social Security as a backstop seems unimportant. You game the system and get Medicaid. What happens at age 55 when you need good health insurance as bad health issues pop up and all the physicians refuse to take Medicaid patients? As states get crushed with enormous Medicaid costs, they’ll have no choice but to slash coverage. Where I live, 25% of the state budget is Medicaid. As Boomers who have run out of money start using Medicaid for nursing home coverage, anyone “able bodied” is going to get booted out of the system.

Suze Ornan tells people with limited assets to work until age 70. When someone calls in with $200k in savings and a $15k age 62 Social Security check wanting to early retire, she’s giving them a reality check.

I burned out at age 40. I’d just had divide-by-2 divorce math happen. My best friend was diagnosed with ALS. I’d had years of long hours doing metro Boston tech startups. I took 2 years off to recharge. Skied 100 days for a couple of winters. Burned lots of frequent flyer miles. Spent some quality time with my father. Got my very lapsed golf game back into respectability. Sailed the boat. Rode the bicycle and hiked. Recharged, I started working in my field again.
I’m surprised that @Ohio made that comment. There’s a word tire in retire, why would anybody be so tired in his 30s. Must not be healthy, regardless of money situation. I went nuts when I was sitting around for a month waiting for my new laptop. I was in my early 50s.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Portal to the Pacific
5,174 posts, read 5,117,306 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Why would you work to become an engineer at Microsoft, only to want to quit that job after 10 years? And then brag about not having to work.
Because working at Microsoft can eat you alive.

I live amongst a lot of them, I work for a few of them and I'm married to someone who was, for 5 years, one of them. I know a couple that are doing just fine, but I know more that have moved on to other companies (and doing much better). We have a good friend that is literally losing her eyes from constant international travel and not turning off her screens. She's a long-time employee without a degree and she's just trying to cope with it all until she hits retirement in 6 years.

Working at Microsoft (or Google, or Facebook, or Amazon) is good for the wallet, but not for the soul. When you hear of the BS and hubris that goes on in these companies it's easy to understand why the FIRE movement so full of these engineers.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:45 AM
 
7,413 posts, read 11,579,662 times
Reputation: 8208
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom View Post
Because working at Microsoft can eat you alive.

I live amongst a lot of them, I work for a few of them and I'm married to someone who was, for 5 years, one of them. I know a couple that are doing just fine, but I know more that have moved on to other companies (and doing much better). We have a good friend that is literally losing her eyes from constant international travel and not turning off her screens. She's a long-time employee without a degree and she's just trying to cope with it all until she hits retirement in 6 years.

Working at Microsoft (or Google, or Facebook, or Amazon) is good for the wallet, but not for the soul. When you hear of the BS and hubris that goes on in these companies it's easy to understand why the FIRE movement so full of these engineers.
Well, that's my point.

You planned well enough to retire by age 35 and travel the world?

How bout planning well enough to pick a career that you don't want to quit after working in it for 10 years?

Not that I did any better, but still...
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,330 posts, read 4,179,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
med school isn't for the FIRE crowd, the late start means they won't fire, the loan debt means they won't be net neutral until their 40s, and they plain don't want to spend 12+ years after undergrad studying for a job that they work 10 years and call it quits
There's actually a very active FIRE movement among medical professionals. Check out The White Coat Investor and Physician on FIRE blogs for more info. The student loan debt just means FI is delayed about a decade compared to the engineer crowd, but achieving FI in their 40s is quite achievable for most physicians, provided they make saving a priority.
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:16 AM
 
7,413 posts, read 11,579,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
There's actually a very active FIRE movement among medical professionals. Check out The White Coat Investor and Physician on FIRE blogs for more info. The student loan debt just means FI is delayed about a decade compared to the engineer crowd, but achieving FI in their 40s is quite achievable for most physicians, provided they make saving a priority.
Most of the doctors I know had most of their schooling (if not all) paid for and could easily retire early as they don't spend much more than I do in a personal sense.

However, almost all of them also insist on raising their kids in a very expensive manner (upper class neighborhood and schools, specialized classes, expensive daycare, etc) and so that is where most of their extra cost goes.

And judging from the couple in the article (submitting an article to Business Insider?), they'll probably follow suit.

In reality, a lot of us (without kids) have the means to 'retire' for a period of several years.

Hey, if I go live with my parents, I probably have enough $ to get me through 10 years of a similar lifestyle that I have now, but with the freedom to do what I want.

A lot of people have non-traditional options to get out of the game.
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Portal to the Pacific
5,174 posts, read 5,117,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Well, that's my point.

You planned well enough to retire by age 35 and travel the world?

How bout planning well enough to pick a career that you don't want to quit after working in it for 10 years?

Not that I did any better, but still...


Well, but most of the time you don't know any better. You just see think "cool company, high salary" and in our case, "awesome location" and you just go with it. And then many times there is this great honeymoon period, about 6 months it seems, where everything appears to be going well and everyone is getting along. Then the internal politics start. A vice president moves or a new principal comes in and wham! everything changed. New direction.

And in my husband's 20 year tech career one thing seems to be clear: Your direct boss that matters a lot. That fact alone has made him hop, skip and jump through probably a dozen roles by now. He's had three great bosses in that time frame. Fortunately, he's under one right now.

And he did the career change. He quit tech, got his PhD and became a tenure track professor. And guess what.. life isn't very different in academia in that you deal with internal politics, hubris, egos the size of the universe.. except you have three jobs (teaching, researching, grant writing/publishing) and you get paid half the amount.

He would have done better as a medical doctor, but for whatever reason didn't get the support of his family to enter that field.
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:26 AM
 
10,071 posts, read 4,687,862 times
Reputation: 15354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
There's actually a very active FIRE movement among medical professionals. Check out The White Coat Investor and Physician on FIRE blogs for more info. The student loan debt just means FI is delayed about a decade compared to the engineer crowd, but achieving FI in their 40s is quite achievable for most physicians, provided they make saving a priority.
Yes and no, hitting FI is possible... But they won't replace that doc income in 40s

could take FIRE at 50s, still early to some.

White coat investor/physician on fire... They aren't the new crop of docs from what I know, meaning lower med school debts from the start. It wasn't until the 2000s that med school loans shot up, the earliest grads with those loads are barely out of residency and fellowships. White coat investor even brings up this point on his forums. No one knows yet because it hasn't happened before with this debt load.
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:36 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,307 posts, read 6,375,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
Yes and no, hitting FI is possible... But they won't replace that doc income in 40s

could take FIRE at 50s, still early to some.

White coat investor/physician on fire... They aren't the new crop of docs from what I know, meaning lower med school debts from the start. It wasn't until the 2000s that med school loans shot up, the earliest grads with those loads are barely out of residency and fellowships. White coat investor even brings up this point on his forums. No one knows yet because it hasn't happened before with this debt load.
I agree with you. My nephew and nieces who are in this career track, canít afford to retire early. One is going to be 35 and he has $400K loan. He does make about $250k, not huge amount. If he retires early like 50, he only works 15 years. Not long enough. The other niece is close to 30 and not quite practicing as a specialized MD yet, still in the last leg of training. Not easy.
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Olympus Mons, Mars
5,711 posts, read 8,618,291 times
Reputation: 5812
A lot of these articles about Fi describe a perfect scenario, major bull market, unemployment at 3% and people in super health because they are in their 20s/30s. Wait till life throws them some curveballs and we will see what the Fi movement is all about. The major proponents of Fi are millenials who are extremely naive and have not experienced any real world volatility in the markets.

I'm not saying one should not strive for financial independence but retire in your 30s with $1M especially when a lot of these people have small kids that have yet to go to college etc. is very risky. Heck, I am single, no dependents, no debts, in good health and will hit $1M NW in about 6 years at around 50 (estimated). However, I don't think I can retire at 50, I don't feel comfortable with it having just $1M. And if I had kids or a wife, no way. $1M for two people and kids at that too at 35 is just not prudent, that's potentially 60 years of retirement to support 2, plus kids college etc.? Just not happening.

On additional point, if one works only till 35 then they have what... 15 years of SS earnings? That is going to severely reduce their benefits when they hit 62. These people may be making the biggest mistake and may regret it.
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:37 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,307 posts, read 6,375,629 times
Reputation: 9937
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom View Post
Because working at Microsoft can eat you alive.

I live amongst a lot of them, I work for a few of them and I'm married to someone who was, for 5 years, one of them. I know a couple that are doing just fine, but I know more that have moved on to other companies (and doing much better). We have a good friend that is literally losing her eyes from constant international travel and not turning off her screens. She's a long-time employee without a degree and she's just trying to cope with it all until she hits retirement in 6 years.

Working at Microsoft (or Google, or Facebook, or Amazon) is good for the wallet, but not for the soul. When you hear of the BS and hubris that goes on in these companies it's easy to understand why the FIRE movement so full of these engineers.
I think it depends on the position too. If you take ever promotion, you have to perform. Amazon is well known as terrible place to work.
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