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Old 12-03-2018, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
2,869 posts, read 1,399,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Well, that's my point.

You planned well enough to retire by age 35 and travel the world?

How bout planning well enough to pick a career that you don't want to quit after working in it for 10 years?

Not that I did any better, but still...
because hind sight is 20/20. I picked a career that I thought I would love. I did internships and research. lol first interning and working turned out to be two vastly different things. after I entered the field I realized that they tend to keep things nice and pleasant for the interns.

secondly I'm in the stem fields which changes constantly. the field I fell in love with has changed dramatically in the time i've been in it. not that that is a bad thing, it is what it is.
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:59 AM
 
7,894 posts, read 5,024,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
I burned out at age 40. I’d just had divide-by-2 divorce math happen. My best friend was diagnosed with ALS. I’d had years of long hours doing metro Boston tech startups. I took 2 years off to recharge. Skied 100 days for a couple of winters. Burned lots of frequent flyer miles. Spent some quality time with my father. Got my very lapsed golf game back into respectability. Sailed the boat. Rode the bicycle and hiked. Recharged, I started working in my field again.
Condolences regarding your divorce! This is financially (and personally) more brutal, the later in life it happens.

But continuing our earlier theme, had you done the "burned out" thing at 50 or 55, instead of at 40, you have have sustained considerably more difficulty in trying to reenter the workforce. Your temporary escape may have turned into permanent involuntary early retirement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
In many areas, you simply cannot get to the job site reliably without a vehicle. This can work in a handful of major metros. I live in small town Tennessee. You're basically driving anywhere you go.
Car-costs need not be exorbitant. It’s possible to buy older used cars at the bottom of their depreciation curve, perform minimal maintenance, drive them for years, and sell then for the original purchase-price. This is challenging in an apartment, but straightforward for the typical rural person who lives in a house on open land, with a large garage. Indeed, one of the advantages of low-COL rural life is the storage-capacity to collect cars. It’s a way of remaining entertained, while also hopefully accumulating property that will appreciate (unlike the house and land itself!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
It is not practical to live that way when you're trying to raise a family, want to live in a good school district or enjoy the good things in life a little bit. You would definitely be depriving yourself and your family materially.
True, but much of the FIRE ethos is a wholesale rejection of conventional life, including family. If one is adamantly child-free, this curtails all sorts of consumption-tendencies, be it the direct cost of raising kids, or the general trappings of consumerism (big house, white picket fence, hulking SUV, new appliances every 5 years,…). There’s no need for a 529 savings plan, for a modern car with the latest safety features, or even buying enough propane to keep the house toasty-warm in winter. The savings cascade – well, except in taxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Why would you work to become an engineer at Microsoft, only to want to quit that job after 10 years? And then brag about not having to work.
What often happens, is that good engineers get promoted to management, and decent managers get promoted even higher up, to jobs that are decidedly not fun. By then, the ex-engineer has lost his/her “bench level” skills, and it’s no longer possible to self-demote into a purely technical role, whether one wishes to do so with one’s present employer, or to quit and to pursue something elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
I’m surprised that @Ohio made that comment. There’s a word tire in retire, why would anybody be so tired in his 30s. Must not be healthy, regardless of money situation. I went nuts when I was sitting around for a month waiting for my new laptop. I was in my early 50s.
Again, at age 30 this isn’t really a problem. It’s more of a problem at 45-50… the midlife crisis years. At 30, retirement was distant from my personal thinking. The purpose of fanatical savings was to amass net-worth, and not exit the workforce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
There's actually a very active FIRE movement among medical professionals. Check out The White Coat Investor and Physician on FIRE blogs for more info. The student loan debt just means FI is delayed about a decade compared to the engineer crowd, but achieving FI in their 40s is quite achievable for most physicians, provided they make saving a priority.
Exactly. The same holds for other professionals who needed extensive post-undergraduate training.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Hey, if I go live with my parents, I probably have enough $ to get me through 10 years of a similar lifestyle that I have now, but with the freedom to do what I want.
That's another difference between "retiring" at age-30, and retiring at say 50. For the 50-year-old, his/her parents have probably passed away. It is impossible to spend one's days playing video games in mom's basement, because mom died a dozen years ago. Now it's either in the basement of the house that one inherited from mom, or in the basement of the house that one bought on one's own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom View Post
Well, but most of the time you don't know any better. You just see think "cool company, high salary" and in our case, "awesome location" and you just go with it. ...
Exactly! Everyone regurgitates the "stay in school", or "get a STEM degree" mantra. Fine. But what STEM degree? My degrees are in aeronautical engineering. When I was in high school and college, nobody explained to me that (1) aeronautics ties you to defense/government, to getting security-clearances and the associated scrutiny; and (2) the more hands-on aeronautics jobs are in the Wichitas and Daytons of America. They're not in NYC or SF or even LA anymore. Aeronautics means a life of quasi-military discipline, living in East Bumble. The pay might be fantastic, but the lifestyle isn't. I only figured this out in graduate school, by which time it was too late.

Were I to have known any better, I might have been an English major!
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:04 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,188 posts, read 6,301,958 times
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@Ohio, you should have been an English major, you have a knack for it.
STEM is the most overused word to describe high income career. Biology is also a STEM major, good luck relying on it for a living. Very hard.
Really, I think Peter Thiel has expressed it correctly, since 1980s, it’s mostly software or CS, no other engineering has done as well.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Portal to the Pacific
5,119 posts, read 5,086,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
@Ohio, you should have been an English major, you have a knack for it.
STEM is the most overused word to describe high income career. Biology is also a STEM major, good luck relying on it for a living. Very hard.
Really, I think Peter Thiel has expressed it correctly, since 1980s, it’s mostly software or CS, no other engineering has done as well.
I've been very surprised how many non-technical, non-degree people I've been meeting in these companies though. Astounded actually. A few ex-military too. And they are surpassing my husband with his engineering background and PhD (in learning, though...). I will say that they tend to be in several camps: 1) company-loyal.. they will do anything and everything not to get booted out because they know they'd have a hard time competing with candidates with experience AND degrees. 2) Not quite FTE or low rank FTE.. they've got awesome tech skills, but quit school before the degree so they can work at these awesome companies, but only go so far 3) Are older and came before degrees were needed to take out the trash.

Oh, and their jobs aren't as secure as the technical people. After a new directive from up above my husband's group now has four non-technical program managers without anything to do. His boss will have to make some hard decisions soon...


Oh and I agree about Ohio Peasant.. love your posts Ohio Peasant! If you're an author please let me know so I can read your work.
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Old 12-03-2018, 04:39 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,188 posts, read 6,301,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom View Post
I've been very surprised how many non-technical, non-degree people I've been meeting in these companies though. Astounded actually. A few ex-military too. And they are surpassing my husband with his engineering background and PhD (in learning, though...). I will say that they tend to be in several camps: 1) company-loyal.. they will do anything and everything not to get booted out because they know they'd have a hard time competing with candidates with experience AND degrees. 2) Not quite FTE or low rank FTE.. they've got awesome tech skills, but quit school before the degree so they can work at these awesome companies, but only go so far 3) Are older and came before degrees were needed to take out the trash.

Oh, and their jobs aren't as secure as the technical people. After a new directive from up above my husband's group now has four non-technical program managers without anything to do. His boss will have to make some hard decisions soon...


Oh and I agree about Ohio Peasant.. love your posts Ohio Peasant! If you're an author please let me know so I can read your work.
They donít have to have the CS degree but they all ended up in software position. I had two technical bosses, one with a pharmacy degree and another one with music degree. They were highly regarded technically, but one carried a chip on his shoulders and the other one often winked st me and said we winked it somehow, as if they figure it out eventually, they didnít know yet at the time.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:53 PM
 
1,943 posts, read 1,334,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
A lot of these articles about Fi describe a perfect scenario, major bull market, unemployment at 3% and people in super health because they are in their 20s/30s. Wait till life throws them some curveballs and we will see what the Fi movement is all about. The major proponents of Fi are millenials who are extremely naive and have not experienced any real world volatility in the markets.
Yeah I want to hear from a FIRE couple who has gone thru a divorce, serious life changing injury, disabled kids, aging parents that need taking care of, basically REAL LIFE situations. None of this being in the 30's where you are at your optimal health and most of the time the parents don't need to be taken care of. Real curveballs where you don't have a 400K blog that 99.99999% of the people don't have the luxury as a backup plan.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:42 PM
 
11,922 posts, read 21,503,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockyman View Post
Yeah I want to hear from a FIRE couple who has gone thru a divorce, serious life changing injury, disabled kids, aging parents that need taking care of, basically REAL LIFE situations. None of this being in the 30's where you are at your optimal health and most of the time the parents don't need to be taken care of. Real curveballs where you don't have a 400K blog that 99.99999% of the people don't have the luxury as a backup plan.
That would decimate any plan and long term ability to retire. At least with money you can fix most of that and move on.

It would suck to be injured and live on $40k-$60k a year in investments plus disability, it would really suck to just live on disability alone.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Portal to the Pacific
5,119 posts, read 5,086,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
I think it depends on the position too. If you take ever promotion, you have to perform. Amazon is well known as terrible place to work.
It's not be my husband's experience nor his former-boss/friend/mentor who also came from Microsoft. As my husband puts it: "My worst day at Amazon beats my best day at Microsoft."

That said, I've heard AMZN horror stories too. I worked for a couple that both worked there and were back in North Carolina less than two years later.

And like I said, he's moved around.. I think he's in his 5th or 6th group in 3.5 years. I think this one will stick for a little while though. I've heard him in meetings and everyone sounds pretty comfortable with each other and positive about the work they're doing.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:31 PM
 
10,058 posts, read 4,648,803 times
Reputation: 15280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockyman View Post
Yeah I want to hear from a FIRE couple who has gone thru a divorce, serious life changing injury, disabled kids, aging parents that need taking care of, basically REAL LIFE situations. None of this being in the 30's where you are at your optimal health and most of the time the parents don't need to be taken care of. Real curveballs where you don't have a 400K blog that 99.99999% of the people don't have the luxury as a backup plan.
They were called hippies/ski bums/backpackers in the 70s-80s-90s... not like wanting to leave the workplace is a new phenomenon, it's just the new way that millennials spin the story. One part wants to bum travel around, the other part wants to smoke weed. Sound familiar?

after 20-30 years, the FIRE moment will peter out when everyone gets old

Last edited by MLSFan; 12-03-2018 at 09:43 PM..
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:59 PM
 
13,872 posts, read 7,381,208 times
Reputation: 25351
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Condolences regarding your divorce! This is financially (and personally) more brutal, the later in life it happens.

But continuing our earlier theme, had you done the "burned out" thing at 50 or 55, instead of at 40, you have have sustained considerably more difficulty in trying to reenter the workforce. Your temporary escape may have turned into permanent involuntary early retirement.
Meh. That divorce was costly. At age 60 1/2, I’m barely back to where I was at 40 when you adjust for inflation. I was unemployed at age 50 for 14 1/2 months at the Great Recession. I was unemployed for almost a year at age 59. I’m working a 6 month contract now at age 60 1/2. I’m just trying to splice together a few more years. My industry vaporized to Asia and working for Asian companies is always short term. Once I’ve coached them to the point where they are up to speed, it’s only a matter of time before they pull the plug on the expensive American subject matter expert. I’ve had to contingency plan “Geoff never works again” for the last 10 years. Now, I’m just a bit short of being able to sustain my lifestyle.

So by 2018 terminology, I was pretty much FIRE at 37 or 38. Then life happened.

Last edited by GeoffD; 12-04-2018 at 12:07 AM..
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