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Old 12-04-2018, 12:17 AM
 
26,085 posts, read 28,484,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
"It's been at least 15 years since we've had a car. For several years my main form of transportation was a used bicycle I bought on Craigslist for $50. I later sold it for $60. It also doubled as a gym membership."

This was telling. In many areas, you simply cannot get to the job site reliably without a vehicle. This can work in a handful of major metros. I live in small town Tennessee. You're basically driving anywhere you go.
You're cherry picking. They lived in Seattle and spend time in Taiwan, both of which have high rents. You need a car but live somewhere with reasonable cost housing.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:20 AM
 
26,085 posts, read 28,484,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I'm not arguing that the math itself cannot work on paper. However, living on 52k in a high COL metro area (like DC where I am) is definitely pinching pennies. It means that you're monthly rent is limited to being at most $1300. You won't even be able to afford a townhouse on that. You have to live in a 1-bedroom apartment in a less than average suburb for all those years.
I live in a high cost metro area in a downtown a block away from my job in a studio. I don't feel deprived. I don't get what the big deal is.

But as I've said repeatedly, if you want financial independence, you aren't doing life the way the typical American does it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
It is not practical to live that way when you're trying to raise a family, want to live in a good school district or enjoy the good things in life a little bit. You would definitely be depriving yourself and your family materially. Maybe some people are determined enough to live that way in order to do what it takes to save money. But that is going to be far from the norm.
Most people who pursue financial independence think what passes for normal s*cks.

I would add that expensive metro areas are just not a place for those who want to have kids. They're hostile to families precisely because of overly restrictive zoning laws that make it difficult and expensive to build new housing.

That's why many people who pursue FI either don't have kids, or if they do, they typically have them in more moderate cost areas. They know the math doesn't pencil out for having kids in expensive metro areas.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:29 AM
 
26,085 posts, read 28,484,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
So many are focused on this graduate -> get married -> buy house -> have kids -> then save for retirement with the crumbs left over life. There are other ways to do it that don't involve putting kids in crappy apartments or bad school systems.
Yep, this is the vicious cycle that not only keeps people from achieving FI, but keeps them in debt most of their lives.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:33 AM
 
26,085 posts, read 28,484,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Why would you work to become an engineer at Microsoft, only to want to quit that job after 10 years? And then brag about not having to work.

The fact of the matter is that ... there are lots of people who are independently wealthy and lots of them work, some of them work quite hard.

Yes, financial freedom presents a great opportunity, but at the end of the day, MOST people do want to work.

So, might as well just get it right the first time, and go into something you want to do or something that means something to you. Then, you can circumvent all of this huballoo.
The reason people want FI is because corporations like Microsoft do not offer them the flexibility in life that they want. Many people who achieve early FI DO continue to do work...but on their own, more flexible, terms, as opposed to the inflexible terms dictated by some big corporation. It's been described as "entrepreneurship with a safety net".

And as I've said many times before, working because you want to versus working because you have to for financial reasons are two different universes.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:36 AM
 
Location: On the road
5,926 posts, read 2,887,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Basically, the whole point of the FI movement is that you don't get there living the standard American lifestyle or even aspiring to it.
I disagree. It's about living under your means, nothing about falling short of any standard American lifestyle. Folks often conflate living below your means with going without, they aren't the same thing. Obviously with modest earnings a path to FI would necessarily involve a consumption pattern lesser than the norm, but that hardly makes it the whole point of FI movement.

The point of FI movement is to live below your means and accumulate wealth over time so you achieve FI.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:42 AM
 
Location: On the road
5,926 posts, read 2,887,264 times
Reputation: 11341
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
That would decimate any plan and long term ability to retire. At least with money you can fix most of that and move on.
That's the other benefit of being on the path to FI, even if not there yet it offers you a lot more options in life. Something like a major one-time expense, salary reduction, etc. that might cripple many financially instead becomes just a change in retirement horizon.
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:44 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,235 posts, read 19,531,226 times
Reputation: 12986
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I would add that expensive metro areas are just not a place for those who want to have kids. They're hostile to families precisely because of overly restrictive zoning laws that make it difficult and expensive to build new housing.

That's why many people who pursue FI either don't have kids, or if they do, they typically have them in more moderate cost areas. They know the math doesn't pencil out for having kids in expensive metro areas.
That makes sense. But at the same time, the higher COL metro areas are precisely where the higher paying jobs tend to be.

Your HHI is not likely to be $135k in the middle of Nebraska, unless you are lucky or an outlier.
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:55 AM
 
5,450 posts, read 2,294,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockyman View Post
MSN article about a couple who retired early in their 30's. Man was an engineer and wife was a project manager. https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/pers...cid=spartandhp

Hoping there will be an article about a couple who retired in their 30's that either worked at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, or Applebee's. Seems that only Engineers can retire in their 30's.

I majored in English and could have retired comfortably in my mid-30s after the sale of my first business. The snag was the three kids we chose to have.
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:58 AM
 
7,378 posts, read 11,546,048 times
Reputation: 8182
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
The reason people want FI is because corporations like Microsoft do not offer them the flexibility in life that they want. Many people who achieve early FI DO continue to do work...but on their own, more flexible, terms, as opposed to the inflexible terms dictated by some big corporation. It's been described as "entrepreneurship with a safety net".

And as I've said many times before, working because you want to versus working because you have to for financial reasons are two different universes.
It depends on what you want to do.

At the end of the day, the reason why we work is not really to line our pockets. It's to make this world a more productive and happier place. Think about why people are in the workforce to begin with.

So, the thought that working for a company, school, or the government is indentured servitude but working for yourself is unbridled joy is a little exaggerated.

Basically, if the husband in the article wanted to be a creative writer, there's jobs to do that.

If I had a child I wouldn't tell them to work at something they didn't give a sh@t about for 20 years and sacrifice their 20s and 30s in order to retire by age 45, I'd tell them to find something that meant something to them, and work doing that.
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Old 12-04-2018, 08:13 AM
 
11,933 posts, read 21,513,618 times
Reputation: 11711
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
It depends on what you want to do.

At the end of the day, the reason why we work is not really to line our pockets. It's to make this world a more productive and happier place. Think about why people are in the workforce to begin with.

So, the thought that working for a company, school, or the government is indentured servitude but working for yourself is unbridled joy is a little exaggerated.

Basically, if the husband in the article wanted to be a creative writer, there's jobs to do that.

If I had a child I wouldn't tell them to work at something they didn't give a sh@t about for 20 years and sacrifice their 20s and 30s in order to retire by age 45, I'd tell them to find something that meant something to them, and work doing that.
Um, yeah no. Normal people "work" because if they don't, they will end up on the street. The only people who "work" to make this world a better place are those who no longer have to "work", and are FI.
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