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Old 01-18-2019, 02:32 PM
 
Location: in my mind
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A friend's spouse is furloughed but considered essential employee, so must go into work each day. They could not take their holiday vacation, and apparently no sick time can be used or accrued during furlough, and retirement accounts can't be accessed during this time either.
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Old 01-18-2019, 05:55 PM
 
1,172 posts, read 746,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KittenSparkles View Post
A friend's spouse is furloughed but considered essential employee, so must go into work each day. They could not take their holiday vacation, and apparently no sick time can be used or accrued during furlough, and retirement accounts can't be accessed during this time either.
as far as i know TSP accounts can be accessed, just not for loans, i.e. you cannot take a loan when you are in a non-pay status. a withdrawal would have the usual 10% penalty and of course, it would count as income.

i imagine hardship withdrawals are still available but then you have a six month lockout on contributions and lose your match.

i guess the question of whether or not an essential employee not getting paid is in a non-pay status. TSP website cites furlough or LWOP as non-pay status but no mention of essential employees who are "just" not getting paid. but of course, loan payments come out of pay and if they are not getting paid...it would make sense essential employees can't get a loan either.

Last edited by old fed; 01-18-2019 at 06:07 PM..
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Old 01-18-2019, 06:21 PM
 
4,408 posts, read 2,561,566 times
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Markg,

Would it hurt you to have a little compassion?

How is it affecting you directly?

In the 80s young strong and lithe, i amassed $75k in savings, and had a $15k emergency fund. Plus had retirement. I worked 2 jobs and attended college full time ( exhausting). In a high col area.

Then 1990 recession came , i was eliminated from one job, and reduced to a whole 10 hours at my other job.

Then i also moved. Through 2 states looking for jobs. Ended up boomeranged back "home" to a very low economy.

Then i also started having medical problems, involving medical procedures and surgeries. I spent 8 months out of one year solidly in the hospital. Hard to keep a job and health insurance.

I blew through all my savings and retirement. I ended up homeless and family would not help. I ended up on welfare after being homeless.

Point being: you don't know what their life is or how its going for them.

True all "should have" at minimum a 3 month e fund, but it can take a year, two or more to save that.

Right now i cant save much of anything. Im now on SSDI, my spouse has two jobs. Neither of which teally has any guaranteed hours. Last week? My OH got 1 shift. This week 3, next week finally back up to 5, hopefully for a couple of months.

Although i try to save as little as $0.25 out of an hours pay of net, that aint building any savings very quickly.
1 shift isnt going to pay the bills. This is a low economy here, minimum wage based. Heck even LPNs can only earn about $14/hr. Our minimum wage is now $11.10/,hr.

Also our property taxes went up up 10% so our mortgage went up thusly. We also owed at escrow cleanup instead also. So i had to cut a check to mortgage company. Totally unexpected. Escrow always met its goals in the past.

We needed 2 sets of new tires, 8 sets of new breaks and more, and the 2 vehicles are paid for. That took a big bite and a portion we are still paying on. My minivan 12 years old , nickel and dimed us to death last year.

So s**t happens while you are living life.

There is an old native American saying:" grant that i may not criticize my neighbor until i have walked a mile in his moccasins".

It would do you some good to think on that statement for a while.

Not all if them will get back pay!

Glad life is all sunshine rainbows and lollipops for you markg, others are in the sewer swimming in a pool of s%#t.

Best to the Gov't workers affected by the whims of one man and one party.

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Old 01-18-2019, 06:57 PM
 
9,114 posts, read 9,202,784 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Markg,

Would it hurt you to have a little compassion?

How is it affecting you directly?

In the 80s young strong and lithe, i amassed $75k in savings, and had a $15k emergency fund. Plus had retirement. I worked 2 jobs and attended college full time ( exhausting). In a high col area.

Then 1990 recession came , i was eliminated from one job, and reduced to a whole 10 hours at my other job.

Then i also moved. Through 2 states looking for jobs. Ended up boomeranged back "home" to a very low economy.

Then i also started having medical problems, involving medical procedures and surgeries. I spent 8 months out of one year solidly in the hospital. Hard to keep a job and health insurance.

I blew through all my savings and retirement. I ended up homeless and family would not help. I ended up on welfare after being homeless.

Point being: you don't know what their life is or how its going for them.

True all "should have" at minimum a 3 month e fund, but it can take a year, two or more to save that.

Right now i cant save much of anything. Im now on SSDI, my spouse has two jobs. Neither of which teally has any guaranteed hours. Last week? My OH got 1 shift. This week 3, next week finally back up to 5, hopefully for a couple of months.

Although i try to save as little as $0.25 out of an hours pay of net, that aint building any savings very quickly.
1 shift isnt going to pay the bills. This is a low economy here, minimum wage based. Heck even LPNs can only earn about $14/hr. Our minimum wage is now $11.10/,hr.

Also our property taxes went up up 10% so our mortgage went up thusly. We also owed at escrow cleanup instead also. So i had to cut a check to mortgage company. Totally unexpected. Escrow always met its goals in the past.

We needed 2 sets of new tires, 8 sets of new breaks and more, and the 2 vehicles are paid for. That took a big bite and a portion we are still paying on. My minivan 12 years old , nickel and dimed us to death last year.

So s**t happens while you are living life.

There is an old native American saying:" grant that i may not criticize my neighbor until i have walked a mile in his moccasins".

It would do you some good to think on that statement for a while.

Not all if them will get back pay!

Glad life is all sunshine rainbows and lollipops for you markg, others are in the sewer swimming in a pool of s%#t.

Best to the Gov't workers affected by the whims of one man and one party.

I think ought to clarify a few things.

I am not happy there is a shut down.

I am not saying that federal workers in any way deserve what has happened to them.

I will be happy when the shutdown ends.

My disconnect begins when we start talking about having to temporarily do without one or two paychecks. Even those recently entering the labor force should have some savings. I would hope that even young people or those with some kind of a pressing issue like medical bills could count on some assistance from their family. Another option would be a credit line that would enable a family to borrow perhaps $5000 at some reasonable interest rate.

I find it very sad that a substantial segment of federal employees either does not have these option or says that they do not.

No one weeps for self employed people when we can't make the rent. I think most people would just say "tough luck". I realized that early on and I never let myself get into a position where I needed assistance from anyone.

The one crisis that I can see is a medical or health problem in a family. Yes, I can see how those people would be in a bad spot.
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Old 01-18-2019, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,050 posts, read 1,450,399 times
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It's not too much to ask. I try not to apply my situation to everyone else's but sometimes it's hard not to. Sure there are many circumstances beyond one's control which can cause one to live paycheck to paycheck. There are also many reasons totally within one's control that cause this same situation. I too am getting tired of the media's attempt to make it sound like Federal workers are "victims" of this shutdown and the sky is falling for at least some of them. I get that the Federal government is a very large employer, which is probably the reason for the media attention, but Federal workers are just like everyone else in that if they don't like their job they can leave and find a better one. Shutdowns have happened before and will happen again. If they really can't handle these shutdowns they're free to find employment elsewhere or even start their own business. Of course very, very few actually will do that because they know deep down how good they have it where they're at.

On another note a few years ago when state employees in my state (Hawaii) were getting furloughed one day a week (or something like that) with a resulting decrease in pay, or even getting laid off due to an economic downturn, it seemed like there wasn't this sort of sympathy in the media like what's being displayed for Federal workers. It's kind of like working for the US government is somehow some kind of redeeming quality, when in actuality Federal workers are just like everyone else. Looking out for their best interests above all else.
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Old 01-19-2019, 12:36 AM
 
4,408 posts, read 2,561,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I think ought to clarify a few things.

I am not happy there is a shut down.

I am not saying that federal workers in any way deserve what has happened to them.

I will be happy when the shutdown ends.

My disconnect begins when we start talking about having to temporarily do without one or two paychecks. Even those recently entering the labor force should have some savings. I would hope that even young people or those with some kind of a pressing issue like medical bills could count on some assistance from their family. Another option would be a credit line that would enable a family to borrow perhaps $5000 at some reasonable interest rate.

I find it very sad that a substantial segment of federal employees either does not have these option or says that they do not.

No one weeps for self employed people when we can't make the rent. I think most people would just say "tough luck". I realized that early on and I never let myself get into a position where I needed assistance from anyone.

The one crisis that I can see is a medical or health problem in a family. Yes, I can see how those people would be in a bad spot.
You assume to much.

Did you read my post? I firmly said in re. To my medical issues that NO MY FAMILY WOULD NOT HELP WHEN I WAS HOMELESS. My parents were in the local area, but next county over. My brother owned 4 properties with 6 units on it. He REFUSED TO RENT TO ME FOR TGE WORST UNIT AT A PRICE I COULD AFFORD once i got my social service money in place. I had to go rent a dump of a drafty cottage that was torn down after i left, when the land lord booted me or wanted double the rent ( probably knew it was going to be torn down).

Both my parents AND my brother ( to whom my parents gave the cash to buy one of the properties!!!!) WERE in a good position to help.my parents did buy 1 bag of groceries for me. BIG WHOOP.

You See...i was NOT the favorite child though.

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Old 01-19-2019, 12:52 AM
 
4,408 posts, read 2,561,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WannabeCPA View Post
It's not too much to ask. I try not to apply my situation to everyone else's but sometimes it's hard not to. Sure there are many circumstances beyond one's control which can cause one to live paycheck to paycheck. There are also many reasons totally within one's control that cause this same situation. I too am getting tired of the media's attempt to make it sound like Federal workers are "victims" of this shutdown and the sky is falling for at least some of them. I get that the Federal government is a very large employer, which is probably the reason for the media attention, but Federal workers are just like everyone else in that if they don't like their job they can leave and find a better one. Shutdowns have happened before and will happen again. If they really can't handle these shutdowns they're free to find employment elsewhere or even start their own business. Of course very, very few actually will do that because they know deep down how good they have it where they're at.

On another note a few years ago when state employees in my state (Hawaii) were getting furloughed one day a week (or something like that) with a resulting decrease in pay, or even getting laid off due to an economic downturn, it seemed like there wasn't this sort of sympathy in the media like what's being displayed for Federal workers. It's kind of like working for the US government is somehow some kind of redeeming quality, when in actuality Federal workers are just like everyone else. Looking out for their best interests above all else.

Re: the first bolded part...they ARE victims....subsequent to one man's or one party's whims.
Its up to those who have a strong hold in the Gov't who are using them as pawns.

Second bolded part: being furloughed just one day doesnt take away their WHOLE income. You do follow that statement with some were let go. Well that means they get: unemployment benefits and are NOT required to work without pay and are totally free to look for a new job. These govt people dont get those benefits. They are forced to work without pay.

And lastly, to these past two posts: those who are self employed put only themselves at risk, not 800,000 people over the sheer stupidity of one man or party. If a self employed person cannot find work or isnt getting a paycheck, its their own fault for going into a business that cant support them,, or they are free to go "work for da man" and earn a steady paycheck.

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Old 01-19-2019, 01:33 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
3,188 posts, read 1,594,567 times
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People are correct that if you follow financial planning 101, you should have an emergency fund of 3-6 months. That being said, few people are even counseled on proper financial planning, and developing that kind of emergency fund can take a long time.

If you have a mortgage/rent, kids, student loans, paying for your child's school, and contributing a good amount towards retirement each month; after food, utilities, etc. most people have hardly anything left over. You may have some that you can contribute, but my point is, that the emergency fund that people keep mentioning, can take a long time to build to the desired level.

Most federal government workers are as middle class as they come. Even looking at them on tv, you can tell. Even the highest paid GS-15 government employees don't make that much in comparison to upper level employees outside of the government, so the average mid level federal government employee is not rolling in dough.

The media attention comes because it's the federal government, and there are such a large number of people affected. They are embarrassed and humiliated in the national spotlight because they are powerless and being used as pawns. Every 2-3 months, the shutdown hoopla starts in the media.

They usually don't last very long, but for Feds, planning for them is probably tricky. If anything, the federal government should learn from this and provide some type of real training for their employees on financial planning for government shutdowns, since they are the new normal for federal government employees. There are positives and negatives in every job, and unfortunately for federal employees, the constant threats/uncertainties of shutdowns has become the risk you take with a federal job.

I think that going forward, good financial planning can ease their pain, but I don't fault the workers. This has been a historically long shutdown that nobody saw coming or was prepared for. Unfortunately, sometimes bad things have to happen for adjustments to occur. After this, I think they will be better prepared next time, and I would seriously hope that the government agencies put in training for financial planning for government shutdowns. It's probably a taboo subject that they try to keep from thinking about, but there should be no shame in preparing their employees for reality.
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Old 01-19-2019, 03:18 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,028,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Markg,

Would it hurt you to have a little compassion?



It's a little difficult to have compassion here for govt workers who make 2x the going rate that their job would command in the private sector, are entitled to obscenely extravagant retirement packages which they can draw while still young enough to get another job (often another govt job) and thus eventually collect double pensions....Add to that the security of a job in which it's practically impossible to get fired from.


They are not working "for free."-- The payment of their wages is merely delayed-- a situation many of us in small contract businesses regularly deal with when payments are not received until the job is completed.


BTW-- those govt workers now receiving unemployment benefits---will they have to pay them back when they do finally get their back wages?
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Old 01-19-2019, 04:42 AM
 
4,408 posts, read 2,561,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
It's a little difficult to have compassion here for govt workers who make 2x the going rate that their job would command in the private sector, are entitled to obscenely extravagant retirement packages which they can draw while still young enough to get another job (often another govt job) and thus eventually collect double pensions....Add to that the security of a job in which it's practically impossible to get fired from.


They are not working "for free."-- The payment of their wages is merely delayed-- a situation many of us in small contract businesses regularly deal with when payments are not received until the job is completed.


BTW-- those govt workers now receiving unemployment benefits---will they have to pay them back when they do finally get their back wages?
According to CNBC News 2 days ago, 4,700 fed workers have applied for unemployment ( often called "unenjoyment ") and WILL have to pay it back once the shutdown ends. 4,700 is a drop in the bucket for the 800,000 affected.

According to the Washington Post 2 days ago, only tge FURLOUGHED fed workers will receive back pay, dure to Maryland senators sponsoring a bill that Trump signed.

But it does NOTHING for the contract workers who were told not to show up for work in December.
So those people may not get paid at all.
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