U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Personal Finance
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-20-2019, 05:17 PM
 
21,812 posts, read 27,847,181 times
Reputation: 16533

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Ok....this is not a rant about whether Congress or the President is right about the government shut down.

I am asking a simple question here:

Is it really too much to expect federal employees to have enough savings to go without a pay check or two?

I'm seeing lots of t.v. interviews with federal employees in tears because--so far--they have missed one pay check. When the shut down ends they will be given all their back pay. I would also imagine some creditors--understanding the situation--would be patient with these employees so long as the shut down does not go on forever.

The idea that some people have no savings at all--who are not homeless or unemployed--is simply beyond me.

Being self employed myself, I know what it is like not to have a guaranteed paycheck every two weeks. You save your money. You sacrifice at times. You just accept this sort of thing as part of what you do. I realize the situation with someone who is an employee is different. They are used to getting a regular check. However, missing one check? Stop coming to me and acting like it is the end of the world.
It's not your place to expect that from them. They don't owe you anything.

I'm self-employed as well, but I'm not about to wag my finger at those who are struggling through this ridiculous shutdown.

The coast guard has a significant presence in my community. Many of them are young families trying to get by in an area with a pretty high cost of living. They aren't being paid. Yet they were out there for 19 hours last week because a tourist's kid was swept out to sea. They can't even accept cash gifts from anyone to help them stay above their bills.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 01-20-2019 at 05:25 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-20-2019, 05:49 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,751 posts, read 7,033,290 times
Reputation: 14260
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannabeCPA View Post
It's not too much to ask. I try not to apply my situation to everyone else's but sometimes it's hard not to. Sure there are many circumstances beyond one's control which can cause one to live paycheck to paycheck. There are also many reasons totally within one's control that cause this same situation. I too am getting tired of the media's attempt to make it sound like Federal workers are "victims" of this shutdown and the sky is falling for at least some of them. I get that the Federal government is a very large employer, which is probably the reason for the media attention, but Federal workers are just like everyone else in that if they don't like their job they can leave and find a better one. Shutdowns have happened before and will happen again. If they really can't handle these shutdowns they're free to find employment elsewhere or even start their own business. Of course very, very few actually will do that because they know deep down how good they have it where they're at.

On another note a few years ago when state employees in my state (Hawaii) were getting furloughed one day a week (or something like that) with a resulting decrease in pay, or even getting laid off due to an economic downturn, it seemed like there wasn't this sort of sympathy in the media like what's being displayed for Federal workers. It's kind of like working for the US government is somehow some kind of redeeming quality, when in actuality Federal workers are just like everyone else. Looking out for their best interests above all else.
I agree that it's a good idea to have enough savings to tide people over in a situation like this, it's too bad that so many don't seem to understand the concept and even if they could save they don't. That said, I have to admit we didn't have 6 months worth of living expenses saved during our working years-too many expenses-, though we did have a cushion.

The problem with this shutdown is its open-ended nature, with no end in immediate sight. The possibility of not having those paychecks for months on end (G-d forbid) has to worry even those federal employees who do have enough savings to tide them over for a while, I know in their shoes I would be concerned, because at this point no one knows when it will end. They will be paid eventually when it ends but that isn't much help right now.

It's true the news media has played up the "victimhood" of the furloughed federal employees, but it's obvious this is done to weaponize the entire situation against the President they hate and will do anything to destroy. Of course that emphasis on the "plight" of furloughed federal employees is entirely political, I recall the government shutdown of 1995 (my husband was a federal employee, considered essential and had to work, missed 2.5 paychecks as I recall, paid later), there was very little interest and not much said about furloughed employees by the news media. They weren't interested, Bill Clinton was president. In fact, we heard comments about how it serves federal employees right to be furloughed, they were a lazy waste of taxpayer dollars anyway. How times change!

But even so, I feel for the current federal employees (especially considered the open ended nature of this shutdown), and I'm happy that the publicity of the shutdown has made the public aware of their situation, and ready to help out the federal employees as needed. I've seen there are food drives, offers of free meals at restaurants and entertainment, offers at banks to help out with mortgage payments (usually a deferral) and other loans, offers to defer utility payments. Hopefully this will help the federal employees to manage their expenses during this time.

And I will be making another round of calls and emails to my Congressional representatives to demand they work with the President to solve this issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-20-2019, 05:54 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,751 posts, read 7,033,290 times
Reputation: 14260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
It's not your place to expect that from them. They don't owe you anything.

I'm self-employed as well, but I'm not about to wag my finger at those who are struggling through this ridiculous shutdown.

The coast guard has a significant presence in my community. Many of them are young families trying to get by in an area with a pretty high cost of living. They aren't being paid. Yet they were out there for 19 hours last week because a tourist's kid was swept out to sea. They can't even accept cash gifts from anyone to help them stay above their bills.
In our area the local food banks are having drives to help out Coast Guard families. I think they can accept the food. I've seen other fundraisers for the same purpose, but not sure how the earnings (or services paid for by the earnings) will be distributed to these families.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-20-2019, 07:04 PM
 
21,812 posts, read 27,847,181 times
Reputation: 16533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
In our area the local food banks are having drives to help out Coast Guard families. I think they can accept the food. I've seen other fundraisers for the same purpose, but not sure how the earnings (or services paid for by the earnings) will be distributed to these families.
The same thing is happening here, but canned food doesn't pay the rent, utility bills, gas to get to work, insurance payments, childcare costs, and dozens of other obligations. I think the electric company here has agreed to wait for payment, so at least that's something.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 01-20-2019 at 07:22 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-20-2019, 09:07 PM
 
11,933 posts, read 21,523,778 times
Reputation: 11711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
I agree that it's a good idea to have enough savings to tide people over in a situation like this, it's too bad that so many don't seem to understand the concept and even if they could save they don't. That said, I have to admit we didn't have 6 months worth of living expenses saved during our working years-too many expenses-, though we did have a cushion.

The problem with this shutdown is its open-ended nature, with no end in immediate sight. The possibility of not having those paychecks for months on end (G-d forbid) has to worry even those federal employees who do have enough savings to tide them over for a while, I know in their shoes I would be concerned, because at this point no one knows when it will end. They will be paid eventually when it ends but that isn't much help right now.

It's true the news media has played up the "victimhood" of the furloughed federal employees, but it's obvious this is done to weaponize the entire situation against the President they hate and will do anything to destroy. Of course that emphasis on the "plight" of furloughed federal employees is entirely political, I recall the government shutdown of 1995 (my husband was a federal employee, considered essential and had to work, missed 2.5 paychecks as I recall, paid later), there was very little interest and not much said about furloughed employees by the news media. They weren't interested, Bill Clinton was president. In fact, we heard comments about how it serves federal employees right to be furloughed, they were a lazy waste of taxpayer dollars anyway. How times change!

But even so, I feel for the current federal employees (especially considered the open ended nature of this shutdown), and I'm happy that the publicity of the shutdown has made the public aware of their situation, and ready to help out the federal employees as needed. I've seen there are food drives, offers of free meals at restaurants and entertainment, offers at banks to help out with mortgage payments (usually a deferral) and other loans, offers to defer utility payments. Hopefully this will help the federal employees to manage their expenses during this time.

And I will be making another round of calls and emails to my Congressional representatives to demand they work with the President to solve this issue.
DC voted something like 92% for Hillary, I'm sure that fact was not lost on Trump.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-20-2019, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,069 posts, read 1,470,089 times
Reputation: 2355
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Re: the first bolded part...they ARE victims....subsequent to one man's or one party's whims.
Its up to those who have a strong hold in the Gov't who are using them as pawns.

Second bolded part: being furloughed just one day doesnt take away their WHOLE income. You do follow that statement with some were let go. Well that means they get: unemployment benefits and are NOT required to work without pay and are totally free to look for a new job. These govt people dont get those benefits. They are forced to work without pay.

And lastly, to these past two posts: those who are self employed put only themselves at risk, not 800,000 people over the sheer stupidity of one man or party. If a self employed person cannot find work or isnt getting a paycheck, its their own fault for going into a business that cant support them,, or they are free to go "work for da man" and earn a steady paycheck.

Federal workers are NOT victims, at least not any more than any workers who are either laid off or had their pay cut through no fault of their own.

IIRC regarding the state workers, it was about a 10% reduction in hours along with a corresponding 10% pay cut. Here's the kicker, it was over several YEARS that these pay cuts took effect due to the contract the union negotiated. I don't know how often I have to say this: Federal workers are NOT WORKING FOR FREE. Their pay is being DELAYED. Would you rather be in the situation of the Federal workers today, or have a reduction in pay for several years? I know what most would chose.

Regarding your last paragraph, if these Federal workers don't like their situation they can quit. Shutdowns have happened before and will happen again. Using your logic about the self employed, if you work for the Feds it's your own fault you accepted a job that had the possibility of shutdowns and you didn't prepare for it. I'd bet very, very few of theses federal workers will leave their jobs because of this shutdown. Deep down they know how good they have it.

Here's an interesting article from the NY Times about federal workers. The may not have the highest paying jobs in the country, but they aren't being paid peanuts and their benefits and stability are unmatched in the private sector.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/16/b...-shutdown.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-20-2019, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,069 posts, read 1,470,089 times
Reputation: 2355
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilyFoxSeaton View Post
All of this is lies.. I am sick of it. And you can bet that when I get back to work, I will be newly incentivized to demand of my bosses that they start paying me as the public believes.

- my job does NOT have a private sector job. However, I get paid 30K LESS than the state job. I have now applied to state jobs but the corruption in the state means I probably won't get it because they are reserved for state friends of powerful people.
- I am NOT allowed to collect unemployment during a furlough. Yet I have to work for free. That is indentured servitude.
- If I was to get unemployment I would have to pay it back.
- my "pension" is 1/3rd my savings (TSP), 1/3rd Social Security and then a small pension. Every single year they cut these benefits. I can collect it at 60... if I want, but my benefits will be cut severely as a penalty.

I had been a Trump voter prior to this but now I see that Trump supporters don't want to be reasonable. They want to steal government benefits from the gov't workers. It isn't about "fairness" or they would stop lying about the reality of things.. the lie to themselves to they can justify stealing from Federal Workers. When those workers are devastated they will steal from State workers...

When Trump caves... as he will, we will be back to work and my first order of business will be to

- lobby for a pay raise,
- lobby to get a law passed that all gov't workers can get unemployment if there is a shut down again and
- lobby for any and everything I can possibly get.

And for anything that appears to assist the Trump voter.. well, I am just SOOOOO Busy ... busy busy busy busy.. your thing might get done in 2021... if you are lucky.
You are correct that federal workers do not make 2X their private sector equivalents. It depends how you define "obscenely extravagant" but I think retirement benefits for federal workers are almost impossible to match in the private sector.

You're working for free right? So are you saying you won't get paid for your work? Because that's what working for free means. Indentured servitude? Please, buy a dictionary if you don't know what that means.

The TSP and social security are not pensions. Define a "small" pension. Everything's relative. Tell me what employer offers a better pension than you have? A pension isn't meant to be your sole source of retirement income. The TSP, along with SS and your "small" pension appear to be the traditional 3 legged retirement income vehicle so many wish they had.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilyFoxSeaton View Post
There is no way to plan for this... at this point continuing resolutions end like every three months. You can't live your life and keep a large amount available for this.

I don't see how a law suit won't end this. All those private people who are sitting so smugly right now, I can't wait until your employer pulls this on you. If the Federal Government can do this.. well why not them? If a federal court doesn't end this it will set the precedent. Can you let us know how your conversation with your boss goes when you get back to work?

They will be like, well we can't pay you but we aren't letting you leave. You must work. Oh well won't do that? Ok we will note that you quit. Bye, we will apply for an H1B visa holder because you didn't want to work for free, they will.
Sounds like someone is making excuses for being unprepared. Might hold some water if this was the first shutdown in history but it's not and news flash, it will happen again. Now if it goes on beyond 6 months you may have a point, but I doubt it'll go on that long.

What on earth are you talking about? Federal employment is pretty much the most stable employment around in this day and age. The risk of your employer being unable to pay you is virtually nonexistent, you get regular pay raises on top of any promotions you earn. Obviously you're not familiar with layoffs that happen all the time in the private sector through no fault of the individual employees. Tell you what, if what you're going through bothers you so much, find another way to make a living where you won't be subject to federal government shutdowns. We all know you won't do that, though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2019, 12:11 AM
 
4,432 posts, read 2,611,082 times
Reputation: 10304
Just saw a CNN news item.

A TSA agent in Atlanta, said he is "essential personnel" and is working now with no pay checks coming in. Hes worked there 16 going on 17 years, and likes his job. They showed him going in to apply for foodstamps. He came out and said "she [the social services worker] wasn't surprised ( that he applied)." Another TSA agent came out while he went in, in full uniform, having just himself applied for foodstamps.

The Gov't official who was interviewed said that the TSA agents were " the lowest paid of all govt workers , they make between $30k and 40k AND THATS IF they are full time.

Think about it, now. Atlanta, the most expensive city in Georgia ( with Savannah in there somewhere too)...

Could YOU live and save on $35k a year in a high col city????

The TSA worker said he "might be embarrassed when they evict me" from his apartment.

Again, im certain that a little compassion doesnt hurt you.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2019, 07:01 AM
 
4,869 posts, read 1,222,844 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
DC voted something like 92% for Hillary, I'm sure that fact was not lost on Trump.
That low?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2019, 07:04 AM
 
4,869 posts, read 1,222,844 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Just saw a CNN news item.

A TSA agent in Atlanta, said he is "essential personnel" and is working now with no pay checks coming in. Hes worked there 16 going on 17 years, and likes his job. They showed him going in to apply for foodstamps. He came out and said "she [the social services worker] wasn't surprised ( that he applied)." Another TSA agent came out while he went in, in full uniform, having just himself applied for foodstamps.

The Gov't official who was interviewed said that the TSA agents were " the lowest paid of all govt workers , they make between $30k and 40k AND THATS IF they are full time.

Think about it, now. Atlanta, the most expensive city in Georgia ( with Savannah in there somewhere too)...

Could YOU live and save on $35k a year in a high col city????

The TSA worker said he "might be embarrassed when they evict me" from his apartment.

Again, im certain that a little compassion doesnt hurt you.

I am surprised it doesn't bother you, or all of your leftist pals, how much the American taxpayer has to pay to support illegals.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Personal Finance
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top