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Student loans should be paid back as a progressive addition to your income tax. If you take a low paying job you only have to pay back a small amount of your loan. If you are a super successful you get to pay off your loan and the loans of the less fortunate.
IMHO - the entire system should be changed to direct government loans outside of the private sector. These loans should be replayed directly to the government as suggested above.
Is this a joke? If some idiot decides to rack up $100K in student loan debt at a private school and then takes a $10/hr job out of college, why should I be required to take any part in paying back what they owe?
Your little socialist agenda completely de-emphasizes personal responsibility and encourages young Americans to act even more irresponsibly than they already are. After all, if they get in over their heads, they won't be picking up the tab. That's what the "super successful" are here for.
I'll suggest that student loans be made directly by the Federal Government to the student without any subsides to the banking system and be paid off with a permanent surcharge on your income tax. If you take a low paying job you still pay the loan surcharge and it you are really successful you still pay the same rate. This has the wealthy subsidizing the less fortunate that, in my opinion, is the right and proper thing to do.
I'll go one better than that.
Seed a few billion into a fund then give loans that are means tested in conjunction with family income and tuition. The loans are paid back with a nominal fee of 0.5% interest to cover the cost of administrating the loan program.
All signors agree to automatic wage garnishments at a rate of 7% of gross wages beginning 1 year after termination of the last semester/quarter, plus automatic forfeiture of federal income tax refunds (if any), until the loans are paid off.
The wealthy aren't subsidizing it, everyone pulls their own weight, and everyone, rich and poor, gets something out of it.
Is this a joke? If some idiot decides to rack up $100K in student loan debt at a private school and then takes a $10/hr job out of college, why should I be required to take any part in paying back what they owe?
You shouldn't and neither should I nor anyone else.
I've been on campus nearly every day for the last 6 years, and I can tell you that student loans, whether they're from the government, private banks or both do not go 100% to tuition.
They're for life-style.
My tuition is free, although I have to teach a class once in a while and work as GA/TA, but I still get a stipend.
I don't have student loans, but other grad students do, and it's purely to fund their life-style. They don't want an older used car, or to do without, they want a new car, and upscale housing off campus and StarSucks 15 times a day and eating out 45 times a week and over-priced clothes and cell-phones and iPods, plus the drinking at Uncle Woody's and that's what they use the student loans for.
Same with undergrads, but not to the same extent. Probably 40% are using federal student loans for tuition and living with parents, or on campus and/or working, but about 60% of students are using GSLs for tuition and private student loans for life-style.
Then they're graduated and they're saddled with 8 loan payments, so they try to consolidate the loans, and that helps, but now they have one or two huge payments, and they want to dump their GSLs on someone else.
I've been on campus nearly every day for the last 6 years, and I can tell you that student loans, whether they're from the government, private banks or both do not go 100% to tuition.
They're for life-style.
My tuition is free, although I have to teach a class once in a while and work as GA/TA, but I still get a stipend.
I don't have student loans, but other grad students do, and it's purely to fund their life-style. They don't want an older used car, or to do without, they want a new car, and upscale housing off campus and StarSucks 15 times a day and eating out 45 times a week and over-priced clothes and cell-phones and iPods, plus the drinking at Uncle Woody's and that's what they use the student loans for.
Same with undergrads, but not to the same extent. Probably 40% are using federal student loans for tuition and living with parents, or on campus and/or working, but about 60% of students are using GSLs for tuition and private student loans for life-style.
Then they're graduated and they're saddled with 8 loan payments, so they try to consolidate the loans, and that helps, but now they have one or two huge payments, and they want to dump their GSLs on someone else.
Not gonna happen.
I'm sorry, but you're just plain wrong, very few Masters programs give any sort of scholarship, students are expected to pay all of their costs, no grants, nothing, applying for financial aid they'll just allow you to apply for loans, with tuition at most private schools at least $10,000 semester, most people don't have the kind of money to pay for that, they also need to pay for food and housing since there is nobody giving food to grad students. It is not to fund any lifestyle. The only ones getting free tuition are the few PhD students, and some undergrads from really poor households, or on full scholarships.
My last year on campus I lived in a room in an apartment on campus with 3 other roommates, drove a 12yr old Toyota, and had to borrow $24,500 in order to pay the tuition of $22,300 and housing at $6700/yr, the money for travel, and food I paid out of my savings.
Now 14 month after graduation, I owe $5600 of the $24,500 I borrowed, it is called paying out of future salary, that's how most people pay for their graduate degree.
I'm sorry, but you're just plain wrong, very few Masters programs give any sort of scholarship, students are expected to pay all of their costs, no grants, nothing, applying for financial aid they'll just allow you to apply for loans
I think you are underestimating how many Master programs offer fellowships etc. It depends on many factors. Some departments use their master programs to add funding to the department (Usually the department gets most of the grad's tuition payment, the school only gets a modest percentage), but many make the programs cost neutral. Since the school only takes a small percentage of the tuition from the grad student they can kick back the rest as a fellowship, TAish or a combination. But even in the second case although your tuition is covered you have little time for an outside job because you are both a full time student and doing some TAing and/or research, so you need student loans for living costs.
Also, given the low interest rates on student loans (now, 4.2%) and the tax deductions it often makes more sense to pay it off over a longer period even if you have extra cash, so long as you do something useful with the extra money (Ideally putting it in an IRA, your 401(k) etc).
I'm sorry, but you're just plain wrong, very few Masters programs give any sort of scholarship
Then they should work harder so they can get into a program that does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardinal2007
Iwith tuition at most private schools at least $10,000 semester
That's private schools, not public schools. No one is compelled to attend a private school. That's a choice, and a choice for which I am in no way obligated to support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardinal2007
most people don't have the kind of money to pay for that
Then they can apply some common sense and save up the money for it. Nobody falls out of the sky and lands in a graduate school and then is forced to pay the fees. It's something you plan for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardinal2007
they also need to pay for food and housing since there is nobody giving food to grad students.
Then they can work a full-time job and part-time job and save their money, like I did before I knew I was getting a free ride.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardinal2007
It is not to fund any lifestyle. The only ones getting free tuition are the few PhD students, and some undergrads from really poor households, or on full scholarships.
That's hardly true.
I'm with 4,999 other graduate students at the master's and PhD level who are getting free tuition. Some are Ivy League school graduates, others come from everywhere else, including foreign countries.
There's also "teach as you go" offered by every university within 300 miles of here (including Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia and Pennsylvania). You teach a class, you get to take a class for free.
If you don't want to teach a class, or don't want to be a TA, or don't want to be a GA, or don't want to be an RA, then yes, you have to pay the full amount.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardinal2007
My last year on campus I lived in a room in an apartment on campus with 3 other roommates, drove a 12yr old Toyota, and had to borrow $24,500 in order to pay the tuition of $22,300 and housing at $6700/yr, the money for travel, and food I paid out of my savings.
That's a choice you made. You don't get any medals for it. There are lots of outstanding graduate school programs in thousands of Division I schools, and that doesn't even count the Division II and III schools.
There's little difference in the quality of education. You're paying for a name.
There's little difference in the quality of education. You're paying for a name.
At the graduate level you are paying for much more than a name. Going to the Physics program at say Princeton is nothing like going to a Ph.d program at some average public school. At Princeton the majority of your professors will be world famous and top researchers in their field, you will have the chance to study under some of the best minds in physics, your peers will be some of the best, the the amount of funding at Princeton is far greater than lesser ranked programs. The only people that think there is little difference in the quality of education from a top ranked program vs an average program are people that didn't get into top programs.
But whay should the average guy pay for forgiving your loan. Mos that go to these schools should ahve no problem paing offf the loan afterwards then.Wgat he said is if you don't want to pay then why should other pay for you to go to these type private schools.Remember the topic was forgiveness of loans.
That's private schools, not public schools. No one is compelled to attend a private school. That's a choice, and a choice for which I am in no way obligated to support.
Then they can apply some common sense and save up the money for it. Nobody falls out of the sky and lands in a graduate school and then is forced to pay the fees. It's something you plan for.
That's a choice you made. You don't get any medals for it. There are lots of outstanding graduate school programs in thousands of Division I schools, and that doesn't even count the Division II and III schools.
There's little difference in the quality of education. You're paying for a name.
No one is asking you or anyone to support anyone's choice to go to a private school.
It is hardly common sense to forgo a $20,000 boost in income for 2/3 years to save up money to pay for gradschool, when one can easily borrow the money pay it off in 2/3 years, and at an interest total of much less than $20,000.
The after-tax difference when you consider the forgone salary of waiting to go to gradschool is at least $20,000. The interest paid to borrow $40,000, or $50,000 for the 2/3 years of the loan is at most $8000 if that, in this case the math certainly works out for getting the degree first. If you're getting a degree that doesn't pay for itself, then I have no sympathy for you, pay as you go, or save up the money then.
As for your last point I don't expect any medals or anything from that. I paid for more than just the name, and even if it were for just the name, the difference in salary on that alone would pay for it anyway. The company I work for doesn't recruit in any school that is not a top 10 school, making it a lot harder to get a job here if you didn't attend one of those. Whether or not you think it is justified companies do look at where you went to school, and make decisions based on that. Four or five years down the line it may all be a wash, but certainly not when getting a job right out of school.
To note, I didn't do any of those, things I started in the PhD program getting paid a small stipend that was just enough to get by here in CA, but then decided it wasn't really for me. Having basically 1/2 the credits for a Masters, it was either pay for 1 year of Masters, or just leave. Having $1000 in savings, outside of my retirement account (which I didn't want to tap), I got a temporary job for 9 months elsewhere, took a leave of absence, saved up some money for my next year, put a little more in the retirement account, and went back to school. I could've tapped the retirement account for $4,000 each calendar year, but decided not to. Those were my decisions, and I don't expect anyone else to pay for them, only me. I got job out of school pays very well, and has allowed me to pay down my loans really fast, and greatly accelerate my retirement savings. This is not gloating, or asking for a medal, it is just the way it is.
It wasn't my original plan, but I think I made a decent choice when I noticed my original plan would not work out. I'll admit I did end up getting a job elsewhere to pay for living expenses for the future, but that doesn't invalidate my point.
The fact is that many people borrow to attend top schools, and for the most part it more than pays for its costs. These people are not a burden to anyone. And honestly at the salaries they're getting if they can't pay off their student loans, they need to learn how to budget their money, no one NEEDS a new car just out of school, no one NEEDS to own a condo at 26.
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