Buried Beyond Belief! (tax, divorce, wage, default)

[8 SNAKE]

Originally Posted by czubmeister

He said that he should have charged his cards up at the time because nobody breaks out the statements and says, "a ha! you just bought a new flat screen two days ago!

I am surprised by your friend's comments. I don't have any experience in bankruptcy, but I would assume that the courts would review recent charges and that the credit card companies would dispute the discharge of said debt. I was also under the impression that assets were reviewed before a bankruptcy was finalized.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by 8 SNAKE

I am surprised by your friend's comments. I don't have any experience in bankruptcy, but I would assume that the courts would review recent charges and that the credit card companies would dispute the discharge of said debt. I was also under the impression that assets were reviewed before a bankruptcy was finalized.

Only in the most severe cases , these days. The guy did loose 6 houses in the BK..I think that was more of interest to all parties , than some credit card purchase.

[ocnymonty]

Originally Posted by czubmeister

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who went Chapter 7 about 4 months ago. He said that he worried about it way too much than he should have. He said that he met with the attorney for about 1/2 hour and spent about 20 min in court. Nobody raked him over the coals.. the bunco squad didn't come into his house and try to grab his tv's and jewelery. He is clean now and owes nothing.. though he did loose 5 investment properties and his main house. He lost his main house because there was some worth of complications because he had Countrywide at the time.

He said that he should have charged his cards up at the time because nobody breaks out the statements and says, "a ha! you just bought a new flat screen two days ago!'

I don't believe in doing that because I do have some morals. Though put yourselves in my shoes for this one. I have property taxes of 2,313 due now and 2,313 due Feb 1st. which I can't pay.

The city accepts credit cards. Put it on the card is what I had to do.

Man... first off I want to thank you for having the courage to post in here. If you are a troll (which I believe your not) you would win an Academy Award. However your problems seem very real to me... I have a few friends in similar situations.

I have a co-worker... he and his wife are mid-30's. He works as a consultant and his wife is an attorney. She's been laid off three times in three years. They bought their house for $500K, took $150K out and bought two cars, took trips, etc. Now they have $50K in CC card debt and only one income. Their monthly expenses total $9K... and they have two small children. Instead of filing bankrupcy they have short sold their house (owe $675K sold it for $480K) and they are moving their family to Florida to live with his parents until they can get on their feet. When I was a kid I wondered what life was like during the Great Depression in the 1930's. Now I have my answer... except that people aren't migrating to California in farm trucks to look for migrant work... instead they are driving in Lexus's to their parents to escpe financial collapse.

Anyway... back to your sitiuation and especially your comment above... I have a friend who is a BK attorney and have had two family members go through BK... your friend is misinformed. BK court experiences varies from state to state, court to court. It is possible that creditors did not break out statements in court BECAUSE your friend did not charge to the hilt the day before his court date.

My attorney friend told me once that one of his clients charged $2000 on DJ equipment four days before his BK court date. Not only was the transaction noted it infuriated the Judge, who accused him of committing fraud for continuing to accrue debt after he had filed his discharge paperwork. He then questioned why he should keep his $38K vehicle for transportation to work. The client was expecting to keep the vehicle. The judge ordered he surrender the vehicle and buy something under $2500 to accomodate his transportation needs. My attorney friend was then chided by the judge for not advising his client properly. He was pissed... he had no clue about the recent purchase. The client had to return the equipment.

Again, I would not recommend that you show continued irresponsibility up to the date of your bankrupcy. It will only add more misery. Every financial situation is unique... and every BK is different. Your friend's experience will not mirror your own, because he doesn't match your level of debt, with the same creditors in front of the same judge.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by ocnymonty

Man... first off I want to thank you for having the courage to post in here. If you are a troll (which I believe your not) you would win an Academy Award. However your problems seem very real to me... I have a few friends in similar situations.

I have a co-worker... he and his wife are mid-30's. He works as a consultant and his wife is an attorney. She's been laid off three times in three years. They bought their house for $500K, took $150K out and bought two cars, took trips, etc. Now they have $50K in CC card debt and only one income. Their monthly expenses total $9K... and they have two small children. Instead of filing bankrupcy they have short sold their house (owe $675K sold it for $480K) and they are moving their family to Florida to live with his parents until they can get on their feet. When I was a kid I wondered what life was like during the Great Depression in the 1930's. Now I have my answer... except that people aren't migrating to California in farm trucks to look for migrant work... instead they are driving in Lexus's to their parents to escpe financial collapse.

Anyway... back to your sitiuation and especially your comment above... I have a friend who is a BK attorney and have had two family members go through BK... your friend is misinformed. BK court experiences varies from state to state, court to court. It is possible that creditors did not break out statements in court BECAUSE your friend did not charge to the hilt the day before his court date.

My attorney friend told me once that one of his clients charged $2000 on DJ equipment four days before his BK court date. Not only was the transaction noted it infuriated the Judge, who accused him of committing fraud for continuing to accrue debt after he had filed his discharge paperwork. He then questioned why he should keep his $38K vehicle for transportation to work. The client was expecting to keep the vehicle. The judge ordered he surrender the vehicle and buy something under $2500 to accomodate his transportation needs. My attorney friend was then chided by the judge for not advising his client properly. He was pissed... he had no clue about the recent purchase. The client had to return the equipment.

Again, I would not recommend that you show continued irresponsibility up to the date of your bankrupcy. It will only add more misery. Every financial situation is unique... and every BK is different. Your friend's experience will not mirror your own, because he doesn't match your level of debt, with the same creditors in front of the same judge.

So true , you said it quite well. The problem with BK these days , is , many people do not qualify for it , because of income, yet , at the same time , are buried in debt , that they can never crawl out of. The Bk laws were changed a few years ago , for the worse , not the better.

[czubmeister]

My wife and I just got off the phone with a councellor from https://www.cccssf.org/

Pretty un-eventfull. This was a pre-foreclosure meeting. Councellor went down a bunch of budget items. I gave him numbers and he asked the questions. He said he would email a certificate showing that we went through pre-foreclosure councelling. He said to give the certificate to my bankruptcy attorney. We also had to do a short 20 min quiz off of their site to make sure we understood what bankruptcy is and some other things.

Now I'm getting my quicken, tax returns and other items together for my meeting with the attorney in 2 1/2 hours. I'll give you guys an update after the meeting.

[czubmeister]

Just got back from the attorney's office. Seemed like an ok guy. At least the office wasn't a vertual office. There were banker boxes full of stuff around the office.

I gave him an Excel spreadsheet of my expenses all laid out. He asked about income sources, assets such as cars, boats, planes etc. He said that Chapter 7 would be way better than 13 because with 13 you end up paying it back in an agreed payment plan, usually over 5 years but because we owe so much, Chapter 13 wouldn't help our situation and we would still be miserable and in debt and probably couldn't afford to pay the debt back after the usual 5 year period anyway. Chapter 7 makes everything go away.

He definately didn't recommend using the credit card for anything for now on. He did say that if the Judge does see a bunch of purchases before going BK, he could say, "Get out of my courtroom"

So the new tires on the car will have to wait until I CAN AFFORD THEM.

That was it. He wants $3,000 to get it done. He did say our case would be a bit difficult because of the magnitude of the debt but said it should go ok.. but no promises. Said it takes about a month for a court date and will take some time to get all the paperwork together.

Next step is to come up with $3,000 from somewhere and make an appointment next week to do all the paperwork. $3,000 is about what my buddy paid for his so at least I know I'm not getting ripped off.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by czubmeister

Just got back from the attorney's office. Seemed like an ok guy. At least the office wasn't a vertual office. There were banker boxes full of stuff around the office.

I gave him an Excel spreadsheet of my expenses all laid out. He asked about income sources, assets such as cars, boats, planes etc. He said that Chapter 7 would be way better than 13 because with 13 you end up paying it back in an agreed payment plan, usually over 5 years but because we owe so much, Chapter 13 wouldn't help our situation and we would still be miserable and in debt and probably couldn't afford to pay the debt back after the usual 5 year period anyway. Chapter 7 makes everything go away.

He definately didn't recommend using the credit card for anything for now on. He did say that if the Judge does see a bunch of purchases before going BK, he could say, "Get out of my courtroom"

So the new tires on the car will have to wait until I CAN AFFORD THEM.

That was it. He wants $3,000 to get it done. He did say our case would be a bit difficult because of the magnitude of the debt but said it should go ok.. but no promises. Said it takes about a month for a court date and will take some time to get all the paperwork together.

Next step is to come up with $3,000 from somewhere and make an appointment next week to do all the paperwork. $3,000 is about what my buddy paid for his so at least I know I'm not getting ripped off.

Maybe your last purchase on the Credit card , should be the lawyer's fee ? Then , when the Judge questions it , you refer to your Attorney who put the funds in his account ! Might be interesting.

[ocnymonty]

Originally Posted by czubmeister

Just got back from the attorney's office. Seemed like an ok guy. At least the office wasn't a vertual office. There were banker boxes full of stuff around the office.

I gave him an Excel spreadsheet of my expenses all laid out. He asked about income sources, assets such as cars, boats, planes etc. He said that Chapter 7 would be way better than 13 because with 13 you end up paying it back in an agreed payment plan, usually over 5 years but because we owe so much, Chapter 13 wouldn't help our situation and we would still be miserable and in debt and probably couldn't afford to pay the debt back after the usual 5 year period anyway. Chapter 7 makes everything go away.

He definately didn't recommend using the credit card for anything for now on. He did say that if the Judge does see a bunch of purchases before going BK, he could say, "Get out of my courtroom"

So the new tires on the car will have to wait until I CAN AFFORD THEM.

That was it. He wants $3,000 to get it done. He did say our case would be a bit difficult because of the magnitude of the debt but said it should go ok.. but no promises. Said it takes about a month for a court date and will take some time to get all the paperwork together.

Next step is to come up with $3,000 from somewhere and make an appointment next week to do all the paperwork. $3,000 is about what my buddy paid for his so at least I know I'm not getting ripped off.

$3K is the going rate.

How is your wife taking this. Is she on board with this. Your lifestyle wil change, however I like many others can attest there is life after BK. My wife is just past 10 yrs on her BK with her ex and we've been able to buy a home, own cars with low interest rates. You need to get out from under this debt. There is no shame in this... just opportunity. And it will be opportunity lost if you try to eliminate this debt on your own.

Good luck!

[darstar]

Originally Posted by ocnymonty

$3K is the going rate.

How is your wife taking this. Is she on board with this. Your lifestyle wil change, however I like many others can attest there is life after BK. My wife is just past 10 yrs on her BK with her ex and we've been able to buy a home, own cars with low interest rates. You need to get out from under this debt. There is no shame in this... just opportunity. And it will be opportunity lost if you try to eliminate this debt on your own.

Good luck!

From what we know.....he has no reason too.

[greggd]

Originally Posted by czubmeister

Just got back from the attorney's office. Seemed like an ok guy. At least the office wasn't a vertual office. There were banker boxes full of stuff around the office.

I gave him an Excel spreadsheet of my expenses all laid out. He asked about income sources, assets such as cars, boats, planes etc. He said that Chapter 7 would be way better than 13 because with 13 you end up paying it back in an agreed payment plan, usually over 5 years but because we owe so much, Chapter 13 wouldn't help our situation and we would still be miserable and in debt and probably couldn't afford to pay the debt back after the usual 5 year period anyway. Chapter 7 makes everything go away.

He definately didn't recommend using the credit card for anything for now on. He did say that if the Judge does see a bunch of purchases before going BK, he could say, "Get out of my courtroom"

So the new tires on the car will have to wait until I CAN AFFORD THEM.

That was it. He wants $3,000 to get it done. He did say our case would be a bit difficult because of the magnitude of the debt but said it should go ok.. but no promises. Said it takes about a month for a court date and will take some time to get all the paperwork together.

Next step is to come up with $3,000 from somewhere and make an appointment next week to do all the paperwork. $3,000 is about what my buddy paid for his so at least I know I'm not getting ripped off.

Great update. This is the kind of information that may help several others who are in similar circumstances. Now may be a good time to sell some of the items you dont need to help pay the attorney fee's and start planning for you next moves after this matter is resolved.

It sounds like your pretty lucky, but did the attorney say you would have to give up any assets? Did he recommend you continue paying any mortgage payments or cc bills etc that may be due or do you just go to all cash & carry until your court date?