Pre-Nup (loans, 401k, pay, $20k)

[psychofan]

1) Good idea? Personal experiences?

2) Where do one go to get an official pre-nuptial agreement? Are there any free do-it-yourself templates available and would they hold up in court if it was notarized? We're typical upper-middle class, not rich or anything. Currently, no real assets asides from regular savings, Roth IRA, 401K (combined at less than 60K total for me and about $20K for her). No homes, no auto loans, no kids, etc.

Early and late 20s
Our salaries currently range from 40K to 90K individually

[colleeng47]

Why do you think you need a pre-nup?

[evilnewbie]

A pre-nup is a good idea that lawyers have torn apart... it is almost impossible to have an iron-clad pre-nup.. there are SOO many conditions now... it has to be BEFORE you get married and it has to be done way, WAY before you even get married... it has to be videotaped... your wife/husband MUST have a lawyer to advise them... it has gotten SO ridiculous, you need an attorney to even "plan" one... There needs to be plenty of witnesses... there is also so many other things that "must" be done... and EVEN then, your wife/husband can still SUE you regardless of what a pre-nup says and that will cost you so much money, it may be better to settle... lol... so in short, it may well not be beneficial to get married and you better have a different primary address then your would-be wife/husband or they could claim "common law marriage"... I am married, no pre-nup but it didn't matter... I am still happy with my decision... don't be married unless you are 150% sure...

[zman0]

Not sure what evilnewbie is talking about.

First, it depends on what state you live in. Different states have different rules. But in general, you need to fully disclose all of your finances, even those held separately and you want to keep separate. Both of you need to get your own legal representation, or sign an affadavit that you refused your own representation (preferably witnessed).

Second, what do you want in your prenup. Do you want to keep separate property separate? Or will all property be jointly held, regardless of title? Provisions for kids? Pets? Who gets the house and who pays cash for their 'half'? Does fault matter?

Third, and probably most importantly, you need to talk your future spouse into it. I tried with my wife, and she was having none of it. Planning for divorce suggested to her that I was thinking about it. And that would have been a "deal breaker" (although neither of us had much money).

You really should see an attorney to prepare a prenup, there are too many avenues and issues to cover on your own.

Oh, and legally speaking, it's a good idea. If you do get divorced, it will save both sides a lot of money, time, and frustration.

Relationship-ly speaking...it's a bit more of a minefield. Best of luck.

[jimboburnsy]

A pre-nup can be a good idea but it depends entirely on what assets you're trying to protect.

In your case, I think the best thing to do would be not get married. Seriously, if you think you need to protect a savings account worth less than $100K from the possibility of a future divorce, getting married is not a good idea and a pre-nuptial agreement would basically be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you had a few million in a trust that would be one thing but what you have described above is your basic, run-of-the-mill young professional couple that doesn't have squat. Don't start a marriage with an agreement to hedge your vows for no good reason.

[greggd]

From a monetary standpoint, I think a contract is in order when you have substantial assets prior to marriage, a 2nd family, or other dependents, business partners etc.

Congradulations on the marriage.

[cdelena]

Originally Posted by evilnewbie

A pre-nup is a good idea that lawyers have torn apart... it is almost impossible to have an iron-clad pre-nup.. there are SOO many conditions now...

Seems true. I did much research and it seems they have been successfully challenged on so many grounds that it is a major task to cover all the bases.

[Donn2390]

Originally Posted by psychofan

1) Good idea? Personal experiences?

2) Where do one go to get an official pre-nuptial agreement? Are there any free do-it-yourself templates available and would they hold up in court if it was notarized? We're typical upper-middle class, not rich or anything. Currently, no real assets asides from regular savings, Roth IRA, 401K (combined at less than 60K total for me and about $20K for her). No homes, no auto loans, no kids, etc.

Early and late 20s
Our salaries currently range from 40K to 90K individually

Your situation doesn't warrant a pre nup. You're going into marriage pretty much even. The pre nup protects nothing after you get married, and most of your expected wealth will come after the vows, so you have no need for the expense.

[aaauger]

Depending on where you live, you might not need a pre-nup. Ex. In some states, funds or equity held before marriage or funds inherited during marriage belong to the individual - if never comingled. In fact, I seem to recall reading that equity earned during marriage in a business owned before marriage is not subject to common property rules in Texas. Any income drawn from the business would be common property.

Get a free initial consultation with a lawyer so you'll have the facts before you decide if you need a pre-nup to protect funds accrued outside of the marriage.

[evilnewbie]

Originally Posted by zman0

Not sure what evilnewbie is talking about.

Here is what I am talking about...

You sign a prenup with witnesses and it is also video tape as the bride "happily" signs it.... too bad its NO GOOD... why? Because you made her sign it without an attorney to counsel her... she claim she didn't know what she was "doing" at the time... guess who wins? And yes, it HAS happened already...

You sign a prenup a week before you get married... is it good? NO! Why? Cause you "forced" her to sign with the "threat" of ending the marriage ceremony and she didn't have enough "time" to think about it... Has this happened?? YES.... and she wins...

There are sooooo many of these incidents, its not even funny... You sign a prenup and it is solidly done... guess what? She is going to drag you through YEARS of litigation until you pay her off... Would you like your attorney to bill you per hour on that? He ain't cheap... He saw how much money you have... by the way, you may also have to pay for HER attorney as well... And yes, this has ALSO happened...

Bottom line: Be sure you are love her enough to be willing to part with 75% of your assets...