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Old 10-07-2009, 06:03 PM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,187,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Those things are paid for today using property taxes, just as they were paid for a century ago.
fire and police ---yes, (property taxes )

military and the majority of school funding ?----no
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
fire and police ---yes, (property taxes )

military and the majority of school funding ?----no
Without common citizens paying income taxes, of course none of it was paid from their taxes.

PD, FD, roads, military all provided from property taxes, sales taxes, corporate taxes, import tariffs, etc.

As for school costs, well when families brought in a smoked ham or eggs to the grammar school; how do we compare that to today's Federalized Education system? We can't.

Our government has built itself up huge and in so doing it now seems to require far more from it's citizens than it did a century ago.
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Old 10-08-2009, 07:10 AM
 
211 posts, read 402,548 times
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"fair share"

I've come to hate those two words.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:36 AM
 
13,811 posts, read 27,445,190 times
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Why not get rid of all these incentive deductions and lower tax rates outright? The original 1913 federal income tax form was 3 pages long.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
1,802 posts, read 8,162,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Why not get rid of all these incentive deductions and lower tax rates outright? The original 1913 federal income tax form was 3 pages long.
Because the people who have the power to do that have a vested interest in keeping things complicated (lawmakers get big donations from the wealthy individuals and corporations that benefit from the tax avoidance loopholes).
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,169,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janetvj View Post
I somewhat understand an incentive to buy a home. I don't know if it's true or not, but the perception is that homeowners are more productive and stable members of society; that they are more prone to maintain and care for their neighborhoods. If nothing else, they help with the state and local tax base by paying property taxes.

I guess tax breaks of all types are to provide more disposable income to people (and corporations) so that they will then pump it into the economy.
When tax breaks go away - overall tax rates will go down. So as a whole tax revenue should not change materially.

Even if many current homeowners become renters if the mortgage tax deduction went away - these houses would still be owned by someone. It just might not be the resident. So property taxes are still levied. Just like they are today on rental properties like apartments.

I think people should buy homes because they want them. And they don't deserve a deduction because they like homes.
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Old 10-10-2009, 08:01 PM
 
1,627 posts, read 3,216,684 times
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I often wonder how much of our taxes go into paying for gvt pensions, i.e. military, gvt workers, senators, congress people, ex Presidents. Someone puts in 20 years and they get a retirement for the rest of their life. The speeding train is out of control.

I think a flat tax would be the way to go. This way everyone pays their fair share. All the neccessities that a human being needs to live on would not be taxed, i.e. food (except junk food, candy, cookies, ice cream, and tax the heck out of cigs and alcohol), clothing, shelter, transportation, fuel, utilities. What it boils down to those who have money spend more money =more tax they contribute. Those families who are struggling with the income they provide don't spend as much.

I heard the other day if a person makes over $102K a year, they don't pay social security tax.

The house of cards is about to fall down. Something needs to be done.
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:01 PM
 
20,793 posts, read 61,297,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smilinpretty View Post
I often wonder how much of our taxes go into paying for gvt pensions, i.e. military, gvt workers, senators, congress people, ex Presidents. Someone puts in 20 years and they get a retirement for the rest of their life. The speeding train is out of control.

I think a flat tax would be the way to go. This way everyone pays their fair share. All the neccessities that a human being needs to live on would not be taxed, i.e. food (except junk food, candy, cookies, ice cream, and tax the heck out of cigs and alcohol), clothing, shelter, transportation, fuel, utilities. What it boils down to those who have money spend more money =more tax they contribute. Those families who are struggling with the income they provide don't spend as much.

I heard the other day if a person makes over $102K a year, they don't pay social security tax.

The house of cards is about to fall down. Something needs to be done.
People that make over $120,000 DO pay social security but they stop having to pay into it after a certain income level is reached because they cap how much they can receive in retirement so they don't have to pay OVER that capped amount but they pay up to that capped amount. The amount changes over the years, it is $106,000 this year.
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,461 posts, read 61,379,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smilinpretty View Post
I often wonder how much of our taxes go into paying for gvt pensions, i.e. military, gvt workers, senators, congress people, ex Presidents. Someone puts in 20 years and they get a retirement for the rest of their life. The speeding train is out of control.
Government spending is out of control in many contexts.

Hundreds of millions go into each state, as pet projects, every year to make each legislator look good to his voters.



I am retired military. I think that your getting a fairly good deal from it though. To have a volunteer force, you need some incentive for folks to join. You could go with a draft, but then everyone serving will hate it, and none of them will do a good job. Also with 100% conscripts, you have no NCOs and no career officers, nobody serving a second tour of duty. It would fall apart quickly.

A volunteer force is a better force. Everyone serving is serving because they choose to serve. And that costs money.

By keeping the best NCOs in uniform, you keep the experience in the unit, and it better trains tomorrows servicemembers.



Most career military will have a long list of disabilities, from minor injuries accumulated over decades overseas. A bum knee, a torn ligament here, an ulcer, a blown ear drum, etc. So if you did not give them a pension, you would still have to give them disability.

I have six disabilities, but I get no money for them, I get my pension. So either way it would cost somebody.

As a retiree I am still a US servicemember. I still carry my rank. I can still be called up to serve again. I may not be as fit as a 20 year old, but I still know how to do my job. I could still perform those duties.

Military retirees are the last wave that the military has, and we are the most experienced NCOs and officers that the DOD has. Keeping us accessible is the smart thing to do.

My pension is tiny. Most military retirees can not support themselves on their pensions. They seek follow-on careers. Your talking about pensions that are less than or equal to flipping burgers at McD's. Military retirees are not living in luxury.



Ex-senators, ex-congress critters, etc. I have heard that their pensions are massive. And they get their pensions after only one term in office. They have never bled for our nation, they have never put their lives at risk, they have never held and comforted a dying buddy in a combat zone.

I am not sure of any benefit to having all of them on huge pensions.
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:39 AM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,838,702 times
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I have no problem paying taxes for esentail services. But i don't thnik many like the subsiueses to many proups is necessary. i mean funding to very group like arts;farmers has gotten out of hend and to people who mroe and mroe are getting to where they contribute nothing while at the same time take fron thsoe we shoudl be helpin gmore like the hadcapped . Too many able bodied people drawing from the general revenues.We yhave created a whole large segemnt of the pubic that can survive withoutgovernamnt acting as thei new parents.
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