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it's obvious you don't trust your brother...is there anyway you could all sit down and talk about this, so everyone knows what their role is in handling your mother's estate?
I’ve tried. Mom refuses to discuss anything having to do with wills, trusts or executioners. The most she’s ever mentioned is that the executioner usually gets a larger percentage because of the role. Whatever.
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Originally Posted by Moonwalkr
Did you offer to take this 'advance' so you can purchase the house and do all the necessary paper work? If you are living closer you should suggest that so you can do all the legwork.
I’ve never asked for anything, even now. She’s mentioned before that she should just sign the house over to me since she doesn’t need it or the money, but that it wouldn’t be ‘fair’ to my brothers. I’ve done legwork as far as finding an family law attorney but she won’t go for a consult. Long backstory with her refusing to face difficult situations.
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Originally Posted by billiken
Sounds like you are mad that your brother has asked for what you see as being more than he needs. Maybe he thinks its ridiculous that you live for free in one of her properties? Sounds like both of you are getting big time help from mom. It's ultimately your mother's choice of what she wants to do with her money.
Brother #1 is extremely passive aggressive and has made MANY comments about my living here rent free. Each time he does, I’m sure to reiterate that we offered time and time again to pay rent and that we’re paying for all repairs, taxes, etc. ourselves. If she were to let him live rent-free in another property I personally wouldn’t give a rat’s *ss. He’s told Mom often that she should spend every dime of her money and not leave us a thing which I’m fine with. Of course, now that he has his guaranteed inheritance, that’s an easy thing for him to say.
Yes, we’re fortunate to have a Mom willing to help us. She grew up in an orphanage and tends to overcompensate sometimes.
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Originally Posted by 8 SNAKE
Does your mother have a will? If so, have you seen the specific details?
I don't know the details of your family dynamic or what promises were made to you or your siblings. Saying that, I believe that your mother is free to spend her money in any way that she sees fit. If your brother somehow deceived your mother out of money, that would be a reason to get upset and possibly take action. Otherwise, you really don't have much of a say in the matter.
No will, no trust. Not even a special needs trust for my disabled brother which I’ve begged her to get. We have property in another state that still has to go through probate since it wasn’t in her name and she thinks she can’t have a trust crafted until that’s done. Of course, she’s in no rush to take care of that, either. She just wants my brothers and I to sign our portion of the property over to her. There’s even more land in yet another state that needs attention for different reasons. My Dad died intestate, but outside the one property, everything went to her and there was no need for a will. She says it’s too complicated and will let us fight over it. I simply can’t get her to understand what the result of that will be.
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Originally Posted by Lacerta
I take it your mother does not have her property in any sort of trust. That might be something to look into, with an attorney as a trustee along with your mother if she is still mentally capable of handling finances. Then any major financial decisions would be documented by a 3rd party, including gifts to any of the three of you brothers.
Your brother is, in my opinion, out of line. What if your mother lives for another 25 years and ends up needing long term care. Her long term expenses could eat up all of her savings, and there might not be any inheritance. Also, if the inheritance isn't set up correctly prior to your mother's passing, Uncle Sam will want a big share as his cut. Your brother is treating the inheritance as a sure thing, which it may not be.
My mom is the trustee for my grandparent's trust (grandma is still alive, but not mentally capable of handling finances). She has 5 siblings, so has been through all of this. She keeps VERY VERY detailed records on any siblings who get a loan, and when (and IF) that loan ever gets paid back. If grandma's finances (which sound similar to your mother's) ever turn out to not be enough (she does now need long term care, and will until she dies), the siblings who got loans will be called due to pay up first.
Is there a lease agreement? If not, this could be construed by your brother that you are going to make a claim for ownership of the house, even if that was never your intention. By living there with your mother's knowledge ("openly and notoriously"), and you paying all expenses, and nothing in writing to say that you are renting from her, you could possibly make a claim of "adverse possession". That could make a sibling nervous. He might figure YOU are getting a house, he should get one too. Some people think that way. I had an aunt who was in a similar situation, who we were sure was going to make an adverse possession claim on one of grandma's properties. The accountant and attorney both insisted that she sign a lease agreement to protect grandma from that. She moved out, instead, which says a lot.
Thank you for your input. There’s no will, no trust, no lease agreement, nothing. I’m in a very bad position in the event she dies intestate. I would never try and get the property except via legal and moral means, though, even if my brother doesn’t play fair.
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Originally Posted by zendrive
That would be very tough to prove. The owner is letting a family member stay there. I would hope the OP wouldn't be so crude as to even try that. Furthermore, its doubtful that the OP is paying the taxes directly. The OP's mother is most likely making the tax payment with the note, if there is one, of course.
I dont know. Mere suggestion of "adverse posession" from a family member who had the kindness and decency to let their daughter stay is evil.
I hope for the sake of their family that everything is worked out. I would call a family meeting and try to sort things out. I can't imagine a family already divying up the estate of a person who hadn't even died yet and talking about their vested interest. Then again, if the OP's brothers are acting like vultures while she just stands by idle as they pick her mom dry, theres reason to fault that, for sure. The fact remains though that the Mother, right or wrong, has every right to do as she pleases in spite of that. She's still alive and has free will.
Its a very emotional thing, for sure.
I would never try to wrest control of the property by any means that were not above the board but I don’t doubt for a single minute that if Mom dies tomorrow, my brother would attempt to disregard all the improvements we’ve made and try to make us buy his 3rd out on the current appraisal. We made a huge mistake in not having the property appraised when we moved in so we’d have a hard time showing what the initial value was.
You are correct in that I’m not paying taxes directly which means I also can’t claim them come tax time. I pay my mother directly for taxes and insurance because the property is in her name. That also means we pay more in insurance than we would if this were owner occupied since we pay for renter’s insurance as well.
My brother has already complained that I’m supposed to get Mom’s cherry dining set. We had a long-running joke in the family that we were supposed to put our name on the back of whatever we wanted to inherit. Mom and Dad always said that Brother #1 would get the grandfather clock because the purchase date is inscribed and it happened to be the same as this brother’s birthday. I love that clock so to make up for this they said I could have her German black cherry dining set and the china. This has been going on for 20 years and always said lightheartedly. A couple of years ago, brother#1 got upset and said the dining set was worth much more than the clock so he should get something extra. No joke. That’s my farking world, welcome to it. BTW, he's 53 years old.
I wish she would spend it all on several trips around the world and leave us bupkis but she’d never do it.
This may sound unfair, but your mom does have the right to do with her money as she wishes. She can give 100% of it to your brother, and she has every right to do it. If she piled up all her money and lit them up in a bonfire, there's not much you can do about it.
You know...I would probably chew brother #1 out and probably beat the turkey stuffing out of him if he ever gave me flake like that. Who cares if he is 53 years old? I'd give him the thrashing of his life if he so much looked at me the wrong way
However, it's not really about you, but your mother and brother #2. Favoritism happens, but what you should do is:
-Make sure the will is signed to leave a trust fund for brother #2
-Make sure that house is signed to be owned by brother #2 when mum passes on
You need to get this to your mother's head as she is still holding onto the belief that her children are all fine and dandy with each other. Your brother may or not keep his word, but only time will tell.
Besides, what harm is it going to be to have a documented, especially since your brother #1 said it was "okay"?
Time to have a family intervention and you need to take this up with them because in the long run, your brother #2 might get the short end of the stick and be placed into your burdening care if you don't address this.
Wow, Bloodstone, it sounds like you've really been a rock for not just your Mom, but your whole family.
The frustration and tone in which you type is very apparent and it sounds like it might be time to take your Mom out for a cup of coffee and sit down with her and talk about the issue of her not selling you the home, her stubbornness to not make a will and regarding the early gift she has given your brother, if it means that much to you. If she is so stubborn to only listen to your brother who you feel is hoodwinking you out of your fair share, I guess thats her problem.
I'd be upset too, if its any consolation. The flip side is that you can take solace in knowing you are doing what's right for you and your family. You sound like a kind and good natured person who is being ignored and misunderstood. If I were in your shoes, I would either decide now to confront my Mom over the decisions she has been making or smile and let her spoil your brother while you continue to be helpful in earnest.
One of the qualifiers for adverse possession of a property is paying the property taxes, usually for five years, but thats not important. I don't think you have the kind of character to go about this with attorneys, unless you can truly prove your Mom is losing her marbles.
Just keep doing what you're doing. Take a deep breath and worry about what you can change. Maybe move away? Maybe stop being so selfless if it's making you angry. It sounds like you abd your siblings have always had an eye on your parents assets, right or wrong. Thats a wierd family paradigm, but I guess it's not so uncommon.
I empathize with your stress. Try not to let it pull your family in different directions and fill you with resent? Life is way too short.
You know...I would probably chew brother #1 out and probably beat the turkey stuffing out of him if he ever gave me flake like that. Who cares if he is 53 years old? I'd give him the thrashing of his life if he so much looked at me the wrong way
However, it's not really about you, but your mother and brother #2. Favoritism happens, but what you should do is:
-Make sure the will is signed to leave a trust fund for brother #2
-Make sure that house is signed to be owned by brother #2 when mum passes on
You need to get this to your mother's head as she is still holding onto the belief that her children are all fine and dandy with each other. Your brother may or not keep his word, but only time will tell.
Besides, what harm is it going to be to have a documented, especially since your brother #1 said it was "okay"?
Time to have a family intervention and you need to take this up with them because in the long run, your brother #2 might get the short end of the stick and be placed into your burdening care if you don't address this.
Mom offered to loan brother #1 money to buy the house next door to him in an effort to help secure back-up housing for brother #2 who is mentally retarded. Current plan is for him to live with me, so Bro #1 can rent out this house until/unless Bro #2 ever needs to move there. Bro#1 lives about 3 hours away across the state.
Instead of a loan, Bro. #1 basically TOLD Mom that this was an advance on his inheritance and told her what tax forms she needed to fill out. Mom is 77 and has about $1.2 million in assets - cash, stocks and property. She gets military retirement, Social Security and Tri-Care medical benefits in addition to rental income so she can kind of spare the money. With the addition of interest earned on her account, she grosses more than my husband does and has zero debt.
Do I have a right to be pissed here? Mom had Bro #1 sign no documents that this was an advance and if she dies tomorrow, I have NO DOUBT that this brother will not only position himself executor and cut himself a huge paycheck in doing so, but will also 'forget' about the advance. Can I do anything to protect my interests? I'm 15 years younger than this brother and have 2 small children to raise. His only daughter is out of college, his current house is paid, he's already semi-retired AND his wife makes over $100k as a nurse practitioner. I need money way more than he does but until this episode, I have never asked for ANYTHING from my Mom. Dad died 6 years ago and would NEVER have allowed this to happen!
I DO live rent free in one of Mom's properties but we pay for all taxes, insurance, upkeep and repairs so NOTHING comes out of her pocket and again - this living arrangement was offered to us so we could be closer to her, we never asked. Should this be viewed as an equal gift as my brother getting a free house AND the rental income he's going to get from it?
This is part of your problem right here, IMO. The hell with a family meeting, you go confront your mother alone and flat out get to the point......Mom, you know how much this place means to me and how much time and money I've put into it, Why don't you deed it to me now? There it's on the table, out in the open, and obviously your mom thinks highly about you or she wouldn't have you living there rent-free in the first place.
The heck with offering to buy it from her and besides you already admit that route isn't working . Run it by her and see what she says and no matter what you've planted the seed that you want it and if she doesn't act on it right away she likely will when her health starts failing. I wouldn't sit around and wait and see how a will situation would pan out. This is your mother for pete's sake and I'm sure she would like to make you happy and loves you, so why not ask?
Having been in a relatively similar situation ... where a centi-millionaire sibling conned Mom in her last years into giving her most of the assets or directly giving a large portion to a grandson who'd married into a centi-millionaire family ... people whose only measure of self-worth in life was how much money they have (and more is never enough, I assure you ...) ....
You can let the dynamics of your Mom's money eat you alive, or you can get on with your life. Sounds to me like you and your husband have the ability and resources to stand on your own.
The only essential to your Mom's money is that she continues to be able to provide for herself with her resources during her lifetime.
Otherwise, it's her dough and her choice to do with it as she pleases. It would be reasonable to expect that she'd set up some financial arrangement for your brother who is apparently not able to provide for himself. In giving money to your other brother, your Mom may view that she is accomplishing that goal.
Your "need" for the money, from your perspective, is not a justification or claim for any portion of your Mom's assets ... now or when she passes away.
You can be as mad as you want to be at your Mom or brother about this ... but as long as your Mom is making decisions with her money while in control of her faculties ... it's her business what she does with it.
You could certainly approach your Mom with your concerns about "fairness" and equitable distribution of her assets to her children, rationalize it any way you want ... but don't ever forget it's her money, not yours.
There's no such thing as "fair" about an inheiritance. It's like "justice" in a courtroom ... it's found on TV shows, not necessarily in a real court of law.
You may find my point of view offensive from a perspective of entitlement ... or from the POV from others here who post all kinds of "fair" about your Mom's money and it's distribution. But, IMHO, as long as you persist in an "entitlement" mentality ... and don't have it fulfilled to your satisfaction ... you will continue to put energy into something that's a losing proposition.
Seriously, how many of you would be OK seeing a sibling handed that kind of money?
Frankly, I couldn't give a dam* about what my sibling has been handed ... and it was in the multi-million dollar range, not low 6 - figures ... and she was already worth hundreds of millions of dollars. She can't spend the annual earnings on her money ... so millions go to charities each year.
Mom expected that I could make a satisfactory living as I had done for many years .... and it's a lot less than you've apparently achieved with your husband for your family. I'm well past "retirement" age, and I still work full time in several businesses, plus my farm and ranch ... and am starting yet another business this year that will employ 6-10 people. Keeps me busy and active and engaged in life, and it's fun, too. I'm not ready for the rocking chair and a life of "leisure" ... which seems to be deadly to my friends who have chosen that route when financially able.
Yes, you've got your life ahead of you, and it's fraught with expenses and hopes and dreams. That's life .... it's a journey, not a destination.
Your mom really needs to get a trust set up to transfer her estate--and she needs an outside executor of the trust. Obviously you are going to have family issues but all there will be estate tax issues to deal with on TOP of needing a supplemental needs trust for your brother. If anything passes to your handicapped brother he will automatically be excluded from getting any state and federal assistance, including medical coverage. I think you need to talk to her again, especially about the taxation and your handicapped brothers situation. There is nothing you can do about her favoring one sibling over another however.
That would be very tough to prove. The owner is letting a family member stay there. I would hope the OP wouldn't be so crude as to even try that. Furthermore, its doubtful that the OP is paying the taxes directly. The OP's mother is most likely making the tax payment with the note, if there is one, of course.
I dont know. Mere suggestion of "adverse posession" from a family member who had the kindness and decency to let their daughter stay is evil.
I hope for the sake of their family that everything is worked out. I would call a family meeting and try to sort things out. I can't imagine a family already divying up the estate of a person who hadn't even died yet and talking about their vested interest. Then again, if the OP's brothers are acting like vultures while she just stands by idle as they pick her mom dry, theres reason to fault that, for sure. The fact remains though that the Mother, right or wrong, has every right to do as she pleases in spite of that. She's still alive and has free will.
Its a very emotional thing, for sure.
You missed my point. I wasn't saying that the OP was trying to set up a claim. I was saying that the brother might THINK the OP was trying to set up a claim.
Like I said, my family has been through this with one of my mom's siblings. Pretty much exactly the same scenerio, except that we were pretty sure of their intentions from past actions. The attorney was concerned enough about it to say something, so it obviously is of concern, no matter how hard it might be to prove.
To the OP, Its too bad she won't consider setting up a trust. She'll very likely lose far more by not doing it than she would have to pay to set it up. Of course, by that time, she won't be around to care, but still.
I stand by my original statement that your mother doesn't have to leave any of you a single penny. She is perfectly within her rights to spend every penny, or to leave everything to charity.
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