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I love credit cards. I also have a debit card but don't use it all that often anymore. With a CC I get perks like cashback, extra protection and even extended product warranties. I would have to be a fool not to take advantage of that stuff, it's like walking away with cash on the table.
I don't carry a balance either. I think the "cash only" folks feel good about it because they know, for them, the alternative isn't pretty. While I feel good knowing I'm getting the most from every purchase I make.
See now, not everyone fits into nice little boxes. We gave up all but one CC (that is rarely used) but never had any CC debt or carried a balance before we did it. For us the choice wasn't because we were out of control or up to our eyeballs in CC debt.
But hey, if you like little boxes we could just assume that people who think they are getting perks for 'free' are all just fooling themselves as they spend more than they would otherwise. They probably don't know how to manage cash....that's the only reason they might want to use CC's. Right??
How am I not getting my perks for free? I get the cash back, protection, and never pay interest. That sounds "free" to me. I also have a credit score over 800.
Man, it's not like I insulted anyone who is all about the cash only lifestyle, you don't like CC's, can't handle CC's, have moral issues with CC's, whatever...I get it and I don't care. It's your life. But don't try to tell me that I AM WRONG AND I AM FOOLING MYSELF. Wow, some people just can't see past themselves.
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
23,545 posts, read 12,517,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank
Maybe you'd care to explain how one maintains a respectable credit score WITHOUT debt?
You think that someone who has credit cards automatically has debt?
Quote:
And I'm sorry my personal experience goes against what you think about how credit scores work but as I said, our credit score (specifically FICO) went UP when we canceled our credit cards (as recommended by our mortgage lender). The cards had varying limits, no balances, some had been used just once or a few times, some never used, some were 10+ years old, some were newer. It was all about available credit.
If there were cards that were unused and cards that hadn't been used fairly recently then they probably weren't even being factored into your scores when you had closed them, FICO tends to ignore stagnant open accounts. Once the cards were closed then there would have been new activity on the accounts. Because of that new activity FICO would have then picked up the history on those cards and factored that history back into your scores, which is probably the reason for the score jump and not from losing "available credit". I know you have your mind set on it being available credit and nothing I would say will change that, so I would suggest that you go to the FICO forums and do some research and/or ask about it on there.
Also, you keep bringing up personal experience. The closed cards are still reporting, are they not? Let us know your personal experience once those cards start dropping off your reports.
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
23,545 posts, read 12,517,887 times
Reputation: 10464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece
How am I not getting my perks for free? I get the cash back, protection, and never pay interest. That sounds "free" to me. I also have a credit score over 800.
Man, it's not like I insulted anyone who is all about the cash only lifestyle, you don't like CC's, can't handle CC's, have moral issues with CC's, whatever...I get it and I don't care. It's your life. But don't try to tell me that I AM WRONG AND I AM FOOLING MYSELF. Wow, some people just can't see past themselves.
You think that someone who has credit cards automatically has debt?
If there were cards that were unused and cards that hadn't been used fairly recently then they probably weren't even being factored into your scores when you had closed them, FICO tends to ignore stagnant open accounts. Once the cards were closed then there would have been new activity on the accounts. Because of that new activity FICO would have then picked up the history on those cards and factored that history back into your scores, which is probably the reason for the score jump and not from losing "available credit". I know you have your mind set on it being available credit and nothing I would say will change that, so I would suggest that you go to the FICO forums and do some research and/or ask about it on there.
Also, you keep bringing up personal experience. The closed cards are still reporting, are they not? Let us know your personal experience once those cards start dropping off your reports.
Well, since you said that open but unused CC are likely not factored into the score then I'll assume you are talking about used CC. Yes, using a CC means you have debt, even if for a short time.
The cards haven't been reporting for a few years now. Our score is still over 800. This is really hard for you to accept isn't it?
How am I not getting my perks for free? I get the cash back, protection, and never pay interest. That sounds "free" to me. I also have a credit score over 800.
Man, it's not like I insulted anyone who is all about the cash only lifestyle, you don't like CC's, can't handle CC's, have moral issues with CC's, whatever...I get it and I don't care. It's your life. But don't try to tell me that I AM WRONG AND I AM FOOLING MYSELF. Wow, some people just can't see past themselves.
One study showed that people who pay with plastic spend as much as 18% more than people who pay with cash. If you are spending more than you would otherwise you are paying for all of those perks. It's kind of like people who use coupons but end up buying things only because of the coupon. Sure, they pay less for the product but they are not saving money. When you go to the mall to buy a pair of shoes and end up buying a bag also, because it's on sale, did you really get a good deal if you weren't shopping for a bag? CC perks are the same. SOMEONE is paying for those perks and more often than not it's the user. Maybe you aren't one of those CC users, I didn't think I was either but our overall spending dropped significantly when we started using primarily cash, WAY more than the value of any perks we had been earning.
For some major purchases we have been able to negotiate discounts because we paid with cash. Sometimes it's equal to the perks you earn, sometimes significantly more. We can at least get the small % a merchant pays to the CC company knocked off.
When I add in the simplicity of using cash for daily/weekly purchases, the time I save because I don't have to track spending or keep up with the accounts and I don't think there are any perks I am missing.
And yeah, your remarks were insulting.
Quote:
....With a CC I get perks like cashback, extra protection and even extended product warranties. I would have to be a fool not to take advantage of that stuff, it's like walking away with cash on the table.
....... I think the "cash only" folks feel good about it because they know, for them, the alternative isn't pretty.
One study showed that people who pay with plastic spend as much as 18% more than people who pay with cash.
This Dun & Bradstreet study keeps getting quoted here on CD. Over and over and over.
And an important word is left out almost every time.
*One study showed that SOME people who pay with plastic spend as much as 18% more than people who pay with cash.*
A lot of us don't. A lot of us aren't shopaholics. A lot of us know how to handle our income and expenses. I still spend the same amount on gasoline. I still spend the same amount on groceries. I still spend the same amount on clothes.
I'm still searching for the actual D&B study. I'd like to know who funded it. Many of these studies are done for the express purpose of convincing merchants to accept credit cards.
I still can't find the source report anywhere. I can only find secondary references.
How am I not getting my perks for free? I get the cash back, protection, and never pay interest. That sounds "free" to me. I also have a credit score over 800.
Man, it's not like I insulted anyone who is all about the cash only lifestyle, you don't like CC's, can't handle CC's, have moral issues with CC's, whatever...I get it and I don't care. It's your life. But don't try to tell me that I AM WRONG AND I AM FOOLING MYSELF. Wow, some people just can't see past themselves.
I apologize for my snarkiness. I was trying to make the point that I don't believe in corporate altruism. Companies don't give things away unless there's profit involved. Credit card companies make that profit by selling customer information to other companies. For me, it's not worth it.
And you kind of did insult the cash-only crowd by implying that we aren't smart enough to get "free" money, and that if we don't use credit cards, it must be because we're poor money managers. That may the case for some, but it's certainly not the case for all.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 04-30-2010 at 11:57 AM..
Is it just me, or do the pro-credit card people seem to rationalize their use of them in a way?
IMO, my overall financial health would be a lot better had I never decided to use those darn things. I don't have much CC debt, but I'm whittling it away. I've learned to live without them.....and it isn't that hard.
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
23,545 posts, read 12,517,887 times
Reputation: 10464
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank
The cards haven't been reporting for a few years now. Our score is still over 800. This is really hard for you to accept isn't it?
Yes it is, especially when you say that your scores have done nothing but go up and that you never had a drop when the closed accounts fell off and you lost a large chunk of history.
If you saw a score hike when you closed stagnant accounts, saw a score drop when the closed accounts fell off then saw your scores regain lost ground over time due to the aging of the accounts that you do have open, then yes, I'd accept that.
There are people who have hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in "available credit" on their cards, who manage their credit wisely, who have scores in the high 700's to 800's. Hundreds of thousands to millions is a lot of available credit, probably far more than what you had, and yet they aren't hammered by FICO for "available credit". (keep in mind that FICO does not factor incomes)
Again, I would suggest doing some reading on FICO, and in their forums, to understand how scoring works.
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