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Location: IN>Germany>ND>OH>TX>CA>Currently NoVa and a Vacation Lake House in PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver
Is that dog trained? Does the dog know how to behave itself in a public setting? Are there protocols for its training? If so, then this post isn't about you. So don't make it that. Heck, the very link you provided describes the extensive training your daughter's service dog required.
Nope. If a dog is barking and wandering around in a restaurant, then it's not a service animal. No matter how many ways you try to justify it, there are huge numbers of people who are going online, buying a service animal vest, and slapping it on a dog for no other reason than they want their dog to come with them to the store or wherever.
What's more, you as someone whose daughter has a legitimate need should be especially incensed by this trend. Why? Because it has created a situation where all service animals are seen as potentially bogus. Glad I could clarify matters for you.
Wow, it's amazing how many more details have all the sudden come to light. So, you're not only are you apparently a medical professional and have full medical histories of everyone you come across, but you're also an expert on service dog identification and training. Congratulations. I'm amazed by your varied professional background.
Another fact (this thread is short on them) is that service dogs must be trained. They aren't born fully ready to do their jobs. Do they always behave perfectly when being trained? Nope. Did you engage this person to find any of this out? I sincerely doubt that. You just came on here to create a thread to vent. You can talk about this like you're an expert all you want, but the cold hard truth is you're ignorant of this or any other service dog situation.
So, you're not only are you apparently a medical professional and have full medical histories of everyone you come across, but you're also an expert on service dog identification and training. Congratulations. I'm amazed by your varied professional background.
Another fact (this thread is short on them) is that service dogs must be trained. They aren't born fully ready to do their jobs. Do they always behave perfectly when being trained? Nope. Did you engage this person to find any of this out? I doubt that. You just came on here to create a thread to vent. You can talk about this like you're an expert all you want, but the cold hard truth is you're ignorant of this or any other service dog situation.
If a dog is being trained, it is NOT a service dog; it is a dog in training.
Wow, it's amazing how many more details have all the sudden come to light. So, you're not only are you apparently a medical professional and have full medical histories of everyone you come across, but you're also an expert on service dog identification and training. Congratulations. I'm amazed by your varied professional background.
.
Go back and read my OP. The dog's behavior I described is in no way consistent with a trained service dog--and I do know the difference. Or perhaps you need a service animal when it comes to reading comprehension.
We encountered a situation with one of those this weekend.
Some entitled pet owner brought their dog into a restaurant with a Service Animal vest. The dog, spooked by its surroundings barked, peed and kept trying to wander around the restaurant.
It was absolutely obvious that the owner had no disability. She just wanted her pooch there.
Cut it out. Owning a pet doesn't give you the automatic right to haul it everywhere. If you need it for emotional support, then hire a psychologist or something. Plus it causes problems for those who have legitimate service animals, not just some dog wearing a vest bought off EBay.
You're throwing a lot of mis-matched stuff in this post. That this service dog was not real has no bearing on the ones that are. An ESA is not the same, and they do not have public access rights anyway.
People who fake service dogs are wrong in what they do, but they don't make it harder for people with real ones. Ignorant employees do. If I walk in with my properly trained service dog and they ask me the two questions they may ask, I answer them properly, my dog behaves properly, it doesn't matter (or shouldn't, unless they are stupid) that the one who came in 10 minutes before had a yapper than ran around disruptive and peeing. The difference should be obvious.
People like you make it harder for people with real service dogs. Conflating them with ESAs and this other nonsense.
One again, an EMOTIONAL SUPPORT ANIMAL (or living "blankie") is NOT a service dog - period. Millions of people have suffered horrific and traumatic experiences yet they manage to navigate life without dragging an animal everywhere. I have a friend that was gang-raped, beaten, and left for dead, unconscious and naked from the waist down, in a ditch on a night that was below freezing. While she has a dog at home, she doesn't drag it around and force it on everyone else. Yes, we ALL feel better with our pets around, that's why we have them, but that doesn't mean you should get around housing and transportation restrictions or be able to circumvent the rules that apply to everyone else's pet. Furthermore, there is no solid science that supports the efficacy of emotional support animals. It's time to ban them completely and more and more people are agreeing with that.
All of your links are about ESAs which have no bearing on service dogs. How hard is this really to get straight? And bully for your friend, but some people after such a traumatic event need a properly trained service dog to again navigate the world w/o fear. If your friend got such a properly trained SERVICE dog to 'drag around' with her because that dog allowed her to more fully live in ways no other therapy or anything else could, what would you say to her?
All of your links are about ESAs which have no bearing on service dogs. How hard is this really to get straight? And bully for your friend, but some people after such a traumatic event need a properly trained service dog to again navigate the world w/o fear. If your friend got such a properly trained SERVICE dog to 'drag around' with her because that dog allowed her to more fully live in ways no other therapy or anything else could, what would you say to her?
The comment to which I was responding was talking about Emotional Support Animals. I am well aware of the differences; I also know that many people are not and that many people with ESAs DO pass off their dogs as service animals and refer to them as service animals even though they are not trained to perform a service. My friend isn't a con artist so it's irrelevant. There are very, very few PTSD "service" dogs.
The comment to which I was responding was talking about Emotional Support Animals. I am well aware of the differences; I also know that many people are not and that many people with ESAs DO pass off their dogs as service animals and refer to them as service animals even though they are not trained to perform a service. My friend isn't a con artist so it's irrelevant. There are very, very few PTSD "service" dogs.
the fact that you don't believe in them doesn't mean they are few. what you said before indicates you think service dogs for PTSD are BS.
Is the animal being misrepresented and because of that placed in a position it can't handle, isn't trained to tolerate, or that might frighten it, cause it to bolt, or injure it? Is it OK to force a situation on the animal for ego's sake?
By creating a disruption, will that establishment become intolerant of bona fide service animals in future and make their premises unusable by a person requiring the animal? Yes, before you say it, I know there are regulations/laws about accommodation and access, but there are ways the person can be made unwelcome or uncomfortable. Why do this to someone?
Why require the public and places of business to tolerate self-centered, inconsiderate, and ignorant pet owners in the first place? They don't have special rights. Well, except for earning a long overdue swift kick to the rear. The world ain't MacDonald's....you don't get it your way.
Is the animal being misrepresented and because of that placed in a position it can't handle, isn't trained to tolerate, or that might frighten it, cause it to bolt, or injure it? Is it OK to force a situation on the animal for ego's sake?
By creating a disruption, will that establishment become intolerant of bona fide service animals in future and make their premises unusable by a person requiring the animal? Yes, before you say it, I know there are regulations/laws about accommodation and access, but there are ways the person can be made unwelcome or uncomfortable. Why do this to someone?
Why require the public and places of business to tolerate self-centered, inconsiderate, and ignorant pet owners in the first place? They don't have special rights. Well, except for earning a long overdue swift kick to the rear. The world ain't MacDonald's....you don't get it your way.
First off, it's burger King, and no, business are NOT going to start risking lawsuits by denying service dogs. I don't think you understand how the fakes came to be.
The fakes started when true ones for things other than blindness Pioneered. Went into businesses over and over and argued the law to the point of calling police to explain it to the manager or employee or suing them.
That was a long, hard won fight. And why are there all these 'fake' vests and IDs and so forth? In part because stupid people made us get them. Ignorant employees, managers, even owners were like if the dog is real, where is it's ID? They are supposed to have an ID. I was like no, no there is no such thing!
But you encounter this over and over and you get the stupid 'fake' ID that the stupid people want to see to make your life easier.
(Whether the 'ID' is fake or not is entirely dependent on whether the dog is legit. There is no 'real' ID to create 'fake' ones from).
Anyway, it's all ignorance. It was ignorance that caused real ones to be denied, and now the lawsuits have businesses scared because ignorance! They are afraid to deny one that turns out to be real. It's their own fault, because even a real service dog can be denied if it is behaving improperly.
I mean you can rant about the fakers, but that is like ranting on here about any type of criminal and say 'they should stop that'. If I remember correctly, it's a crime to hold out a dog as a service dog that isn't a real one.
The problem is with the businesses who don't get properly educated. Criminals are always going to do what they do.
I bet if you see a dog in a basket at the store, and complain to management, they will tell you they don't know how to discern a service dog from a non-service dog and are playing it safe.
No one is stopping them at the entrance and asking the two legal questions they are allowed to ask. At least if they did that, the fakers would have to up their game a notch to have answers. From there, they do have to just take their word for it, true. UNLESS the dog is misbehaving and that is where they fail apparently.
Is the animal being misrepresented and because of that placed in a position it can't handle, isn't trained to tolerate, or that might frighten it, cause it to bolt, or injure it? Is it OK to force a situation on the animal for ego's sake?
By creating a disruption, will that establishment become intolerant of bona fide service animals in future and make their premises unusable by a person requiring the animal? Yes, before you say it, I know there are regulations/laws about accommodation and access, but there are ways the person can be made unwelcome or uncomfortable. Why do this to someone?
Why require the public and places of business to tolerate self-centered, inconsiderate, and ignorant pet owners in the first place? They don't have special rights. Well, except for earning a long overdue swift kick to the rear. The world ain't MacDonald's....you don't get it your way.
Oops, I strayed but I don't feel like editing. What are you even saying here? No one is required to tolerate that. They are required to accommodate service dogs. People with those DO have special rights. Sorry, but you wouldn't want any of the conditions that give them that special right. Try denying one and see if they can't have it their way.
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