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Old 10-26-2018, 10:17 PM
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,379 posts, read 14,221,785 times
Reputation: 22854

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post

The problem is with the businesses who don't get properly educated. Criminals are always going to do what they do.

I bet if you see a dog in a basket at the store, and complain to management, they will tell you they don't know how to discern a service dog from a non-service dog and are playing it safe.

No one is stopping them at the entrance and asking the two legal questions they are allowed to ask. At least if they did that, the fakers would have to up their game a notch to have answers. From there, they do have to just take their word for it, true. UNLESS the dog is misbehaving and that is where they fail apparently.
As someone who did ask those two questions I was told to stop, for fear of a lawsuit, because someone complained that I asked. (They answered their dog was to keep them company and help their anxiety) The problem is with people who think their pets and/or ESA animals are entitled to the same recognition and treatment as a service animal. The problem is with the fact there is no real way to enforce the law against impersonating someone with a disability because it comes down to having to take someone's word for it, and people lie. The problem is that being able to 'do something about it' when (after) the dog misbehaves isn't really a solution at all.

 
Old 10-26-2018, 10:51 PM
 
13,369 posts, read 6,605,026 times
Reputation: 12823
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
As someone who did ask those two questions I was told to stop, for fear of a lawsuit, because someone complained that I asked. (They answered their dog was to keep them company and help their anxiety) The problem is with people who think their pets and/or ESA animals are entitled to the same recognition and treatment as a service animal. The problem is with the fact there is no real way to enforce the law against impersonating someone with a disability because it comes down to having to take someone's word for it, and people lie. The problem is that being able to 'do something about it' when (after) the dog misbehaves isn't really a solution at all.
Ignorance strikes again. Whoever told you that was wrong. And I don't think her answer was legit. She didn't name a TASK. She described an ESA, not a service dog.

She had NO basis to complain. People with legit service dogs know the rules and laws and the two questions they may be asked and must answer.

But you illustrated my point. After all of the suits from the Pioneers of taking service dogs out into businesses and being turned away, businesses are afraid and ignorance abounds in the opposite direction now.
 
Old 10-27-2018, 10:47 AM
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,379 posts, read 14,221,785 times
Reputation: 22854
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Ignorance strikes again. Whoever told you that was wrong. And I don't think her answer was legit. She didn't name a TASK. She described an ESA, not a service dog.

She had NO basis to complain. People with legit service dogs know the rules and laws and the two questions they may be asked and must answer.

But you illustrated my point. After all of the suits from the Pioneers of taking service dogs out into businesses and being turned away, businesses are afraid and ignorance abounds in the opposite direction now.
Bottom line is that all it takes is a threat from a customer, legit or not. And yeah businesses run in fear of lawsuits, it's why we card everyone for an alcohol purchase, even if they are ninety, lol.

The other part of it is ignorance on the part of some ESA owners, they sometimes really don't understand how a service animal is different. The above lady in question kept insisting that I take her 'papers' as proof that she had a right to bring her dog in with her, and she threatened to call the police on me. I genuinely think she thought those papers made it ok to take her dog everywhere she went. I mean she registered with and paid for them, they must be legitimate, right?
So now I do just what you described, if a customer complains that an animal in the store is misbehaving I just tell them my hands are tied and I go on. I'm waiting for the day another customer is hurt by some scared animal and we get sued anyway.
 
Old 10-27-2018, 10:58 AM
 
1,143 posts, read 334,233 times
Reputation: 3502
My sister has an emotional support animal. She is just fine without him. If it's not convenient for her she leaves him home. She is also able to take his vet bills and food as a tax deduction. The dog isn't bad, but he is obviously not as well behaved as a trained service dog. I hope that eventually ES animals have to have real training.
 
Old 10-27-2018, 01:24 PM
 
13,369 posts, read 6,605,026 times
Reputation: 12823
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Twist View Post
My sister has an emotional support animal. She is just fine without him. If it's not convenient for her she leaves him home. She is also able to take his vet bills and food as a tax deduction. The dog isn't bad, but he is obviously not as well behaved as a trained service dog. I hope that eventually ES animals have to have real training.
Why do ESA's need special training? They don't have public access.
 
Old 10-27-2018, 01:52 PM
 
6,233 posts, read 3,523,327 times
Reputation: 21731
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
We encountered a situation with one of those this weekend.



Some entitled pet owner brought their dog into a restaurant with a Service Animal vest. The dog, spooked by its surroundings barked, peed and kept trying to wander around the restaurant.



It was absolutely obvious that the owner had no disability. She just wanted her pooch there.



Cut it out. Owning a pet doesn't give you the automatic right to haul it everywhere. If you need it for emotional support, then hire a psychologist or something. Plus it causes problems for those who have legitimate service animals, not just some dog wearing a vest bought off EBay.





https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article...1yodjnM0SFxYjQ
I volunteer at a nursing home where other volunteers frequently bring animals in for the residents to enjoy. All of these animals have impeccable manners and it's obvious someone has taken a lot of time to make them pleasant and well-behaved companions.

This seems crucial not only for the safety and enjoyment of the residents but also for the safety of the animal. Because an unruly animal is potentially an abusable animal.

This summer I had a wretched experience at the beach with a young woman claiming her dog was a service dog. (The beach has a sign saying no dogs are to be off the path or unleashed.)

I couldn't diagnose the women but she was obviously mildly mentally impaired. Neither am I capable of determining whether the dog was a service dog. None of that matters to me one way or the other.

What mattered to me was that the dog ran loose, into the water, onto my towel tracking sand, trying to dig into my beach bag, trying to lick my face, back and forth, back and forth.

And every time I asked her to control her animal she responded with, "This is my service dog and he has a right to be here." Apparently that's what someone had taught her and she was sticking to it without being able to understand the social consequences of her rowdy pet.

I was ready to tell her if she couldn't control him that I was going to call animal control. But by then my afternoon's relaxation was disturbed and I didn't want to stay any longer anyway so I just left. I think that young lady actually needed a service human.
 
Old 10-27-2018, 03:24 PM
 
6,071 posts, read 2,792,798 times
Reputation: 15366
On varying summer events our Hotel is innudated with folks claiming their pet Fi Fi is a service pet. Correct that we must provide and abide for the safety and privacy of guest...ADA or not.

When the question is broached on what particular aspect the service animal is geared in...Deaf? Blind? ambulatory safety? Health - diabetic? Heart? It helps us to have on staff the correct certified team members should we find the animal alerting the owner or a staff member.


But noooo...we get Aunt Em with her Little Fifi dog that is CLEARLY NOT a service animal...showing up to keep Aunty Em company.

Why even tonight I must go in..and run Audit for the Hotel. We must have on hand for any guest with a service dog an alert buzzer for the fire/medic/ 911 team so they can get to that GUEST first! BUt imagine how often its just Aunty em not wanting to leave little fifi at home or at the boarders.
A young couple is residing there tonight and on their notes is: we are traveling with a service animal. So we must make sure the room itself is setup to keep the owner and the animal safe.....( wires...odors..limited).
Never mind that when questioned what brings them to the area they said...Ohh we are going to a concert! Our reservation place laughed behind the scenes....we knew then that Little fifi wasn't going to be hauled to this venue...which technically service dogs are 24 /7 to be with the owner/or patient/or person to whom they are trained for.
What really is the saving grace in the industry is that should even a service animal do damage to a room or hotel property we can STILL charge the guest. Some Guest actually said...NO you can't! In which we reply, yes we can ....be it man or beast, when damage is done, we reserve the right to charge such a fee. Heres the policy.
 
Old 10-27-2018, 07:52 PM
 
6,233 posts, read 3,523,327 times
Reputation: 21731
Oh mercy, Nov3. I was going through the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN and rented a room in a medium-priced hotel. When I got into the room I noticed an odor but I couldn't identify the source. I finally found it behind the door to the room which I had left open.

It was doggy poo. I checked out immediately. She offered me a different room but I declined. So in that case her policy and a lazy housekeeping staff lost her business. It's unfortunate.

I try to avoid staying anywhere that allows dogs and that's getting more difficult all the time. It's not that I don't like dogs. I actually had a lovely spaniel once.

It's that I have met too many dog owners who seem to know nothing about the type of dog they have chosen and its needs including no idea or inclination how to teach them their manners. I feel sorry for the poor dogs because it makes them unlovable, often eventually discarded and a poor candidate for re-adoption.
 
Old 10-27-2018, 11:46 PM
 
6,071 posts, read 2,792,798 times
Reputation: 15366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
Oh mercy, Nov3. I was going through the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN and rented a room in a medium-priced hotel. When I got into the room I noticed an odor but I couldn't identify the source. I finally found it behind the door to the room which I had left open.

It was doggy poo. I checked out immediately. She offered me a different room but I declined. So in that case her policy and a lazy housekeeping staff lost her business. It's unfortunate.

I try to avoid staying anywhere that allows dogs and that's getting more difficult all the time. It's not that I don't like dogs. I actually had a lovely spaniel once.

It's that I have met too many dog owners who seem to know nothing about the type of dog they have chosen and its needs including no idea or inclination how to teach them their manners. I feel sorry for the poor dogs because it makes them unlovable, often eventually discarded and a poor candidate for re-adoption.
Ohh my! That is unfortunate that you were met with such a "deposit" left behind ( no pun intended!). Our Hotel would be flagged by our corporate if such was noticed. And trust me, none of us at the hotel ever want to have that NOTIFICATION from corporate. We'd be shut down til they had the VP come in .
Service animals are vetted to meet the needs of the afflicted. I have no qualms in them being at any of the properties...Plus its a FEDERAL manadate that they be allowed at ANY hotel/motel/lodge/inn. The challenge as conveyed is narrowing down the ones that are truly trained in servicing the needs of the traveler. I have yet to find one service animal leave behind such a deposit. They are well trained in that department too! The valid ones who do stay here ...we get to know the owners. Its also a woe of theirs when they have been thru the the "pairing " of training and invest in these animals to see Little Fifi running rampant and leaving "spots" /markings too.
My co worker has a black lab that stays on premise. She is extremely versed on dog service training. She has diabetes and Heart problems. This dog can sniff her and tell her when her sugar is low or when she is having heart problems. One night she made it clear....NOT to wear perfume or spray freshner around the dog. It impedes his "service". So every now and again she'll vet a potential guest to find out about the dogs training. twice she made arrangements for them to find another hotel not affliated with our brand because they were trying to take advantage of the system.
Im at work now and Little Fifi was not allowed on the property from the concert goer guests. Our supervisor put a stop to that immediately. He said...pets cannot be left unattended in the room while you are out at your venue. we cannot be liable for their safety without the afflicted giving proper commends.
 
Old 10-28-2018, 02:09 AM
 
Location: on the wind
6,821 posts, read 2,779,636 times
Reputation: 23241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post

This summer I had a wretched experience at the beach with a young woman claiming her dog was a service dog. (The beach has a sign saying no dogs are to be off the path or unleashed.)
A legitimate service dog wouldn't have been off a leash. It would be doing its job particularly in public. Also, a legitimate service dog represents too much money/time/training to be left running loose. I suspect it would be taken away from the client if it was discovered so carelessly handled.
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