Philadelphia 2035 (pricing, horse, drivers)

[MikeNigh]

Coming from DC I think Philly has a lot to gain at this point from making at least it's main stations look nice and be modern etc. If they gave that kind of effort for dilworth, 15th station should be next.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by MikeNigh

Coming from DC I think Philly has a lot to gain at this point from making at least it's main stations look nice and be modern etc. If they gave that kind of effort for dilworth, 15th station should be next.

I think people have to consider also that SEPTA was cash-starved for decades. It barely had enough money for basic operations, let alone capital improvements, leading to a massive amount of deferred maintenance. The new Act 89 funding will finally enable the system to catch up with its crucial back-end infrastructure work, but it's still going to take a number of years. There will also need to be new funding streams sought at the local level.

Over the next 5-10 years, the agency will be in a much better position to consider renovation of subway stations, for example. The next step would be actual movement on long-discussed/proposed expansion projects in the city and suburbs.

Especially with increased ridership (evidenced in an article that came out just today: Amid ridership surge, SEPTA trains are packed), the agency is now in a better position to improve its system than it has been in over 30 years.

[Cnote11]

Yes, I wouldn't put the blame entirely on SEPTA. I think there are a lot of little things they could be doing to improve their system, but it mostly is the fault of the American attitude towards public transportation and making it a low priority.

[Leon2014]

Originally Posted by Cnote11

Yes, I wouldn't put the blame entirely on SEPTA. I think there are a lot of little things they could be doing to improve their system, but it mostly is the fault of the American attitude towards public transportation and making it a low priority.

Why is it someone's fault? It's not the fault of SEPTA. And it's not the fault of American attitude. It's simple economics.

Driving is basically more pleasant. Sometimes it's cheaper, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's faster, sometimes it's slower. Well you get the point. But in the end, when someone makes the final decision, driving is the preferred choice in a lot of cases.

What is SEPTA? Let's be blunt. The majority of bus and trolley ridership is lower income. The regional rail is for those that don't like traffic. Not everyone wants to be cramped in those antique trains every single day.

SEPTA will never become world class. It's too late. The self-driving cars, smart traffic control technology, and super MPG cars are all around the corner. We are talking about 30-40 years. Even if SEPTA improves, there will be no ridership, except lower incomes. But SEPTA won't improve. There is no large scale high-income ridership demand now, and there won't be in the future.

[Cnote11]

^^^ American attitude towards public transportation on display. Yes, it would be because of this attitude that public transportation hasn't flourished in the States. Pretty simple stuff...

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by Duderino

I think people have to consider also that SEPTA was cash-starved for decades. It barely had enough money for basic operations, let alone capital improvements, leading to a massive amount of deferred maintenance. The new Act 89 funding will finally enable the system to catch up with its crucial back-end infrastructure work, but it's still going to take a number of years. There will also need to be new funding streams sought at the local level.

Over the next 5-10 years, the agency will be in a much better position to consider renovation of subway stations, for example. The next step would be actual movement on long-discussed/proposed expansion projects in the city and suburbs.

Especially with increased ridership (evidenced in an article that came out just today: Amid ridership surge, SEPTA trains are packed), the agency is now in a better position to improve its system than it has been in over 30 years.

Although the DC Metro was also quite cash starved. The difference is that the Metro is physically MUCH newer to begin with (only opened in the late 70's), and the system's ridership (just talking about subways here) is much higher.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by Leon2014

SEPTA will never become world class. It's too late. The self-driving cars, smart traffic control technology, and super MPG cars are all around the corner. We are talking about 30-40 years. Even if SEPTA improves, there will be no ridership, except lower incomes. But SEPTA won't improve. There is no large scale high-income ridership demand now, and there won't be in the future.

You're being myopic. It's not either-or. We need cars and public transit. Driverless and more fuel efficient cars will, by no stretch of the imagination, eliminate congestion. This is the idea behind a transportation network. No major urban area should ever completely rely one primary mode of transit -- there should be multiple options for mobility.

SEPTA is, indeed, improving, so your prognostication is already false (the new Silverliners are far from "antiquated trains" -- they even beat DC's Metro cars, which I ride everyday). You've also clearly never ridden most regional rail lines, as they are jam-packed full of high-income, white-collar workers everyday.

[Leon2014]

Originally Posted by Duderino

You've also clearly never ridden most regional rail lines, as they are jam-packed full of high-income, white-collar workers everyday.

I don't want to be jam-packed with high-income people either. Nobody who is high-income wants to be jam-packed with anybody.

Let's be honest, most people on those trains can't afford to buy a parking spot in center city near their jobs. A train ticket is significantly cheaper than running a car and parking. Driving is also stressful, and sometimes slower.

But that is all changing. You have no idea what technology can do for congestion. Parking will become less of an issue also since cars will park themselves. This is not science fictions. The technology is already here.

You are stuck in Philadelphia that doesn't even have smart traffic lights that were in place for 50 years in Japan, and at least a decade in the nicer Philly suburbs. Congestion is a human problem.

Most people would drive in Hong Kong too, with their first class public transport. Except a parking spot anywhere in the business district will run at least $1,000 per month. It's not that people like public transport. They just can't afford anything else. All of it is pure economics. And it will never turn in favor of public transport for high-income individuals in this area. It's not dense enough, and won't be for centuries, if ever.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

It's official! SEPTA will keep 24-hour weekend subway service. This is great news as Philly transit continues to become world class. #phillyiswinning

SEPTA overnight weekend service so popular it's staying

It's great. But it's sort of a, " everything old is new again", tidbit. But I'm definitely happy about it, though. Now, if we can work on total 24 hrs service I'd be more happy about it.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Cnote11

I'm far from always negative. Additionally, 24-hour subway service really does not suddenly make it a world-class system... if only it were that easy. While 24-hour subway service may for good for some--although Philadelphia hardly needs it--it certainly doesn't ring true as any great improvement.

All it truly is is trying to get back to the level, in steps, of the 24hrs service that existed years ago.