Philadelphia 2035 (York: bills, assault, sewer)

[timeEd32]

I admittedly have no connection to Jeweler's Row and while I've likely walked on that street I don't remember it, but as someone who will almost always side with preserving historic buildings this seems like a fairly decent compromise. From street level it seems like the building will fit visually since the tower is set back and Philly gets to keep moving forward.

[asiandudeyo]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Toll Bros. shrugs off call for Jewelers Row preservation in condo plan


I would like to hear everyones opinions, what do you think of the tower??


I actually think the tower is decent, not sure how I feel about the faux industrial/colonial façade yet... but still better than other new towers in the city. From the comments online (I know Philly.com is troll central) people don't even seem to be giving it a chance just because its Toll Brothers, as if other developers care any less about the almighty dollar. Jewelers Row issue aside, I think people should be pleased a company like Toll is beginning to invest in the city rather than bypassing it for NYC and DC.

My opinion of the tower:
It is decent. However I am disappointed that they have to demolish the current retail spaces and replace them with a uniformly looking "three-building" ground floor retail.
I would like their design more if:
1. They maintain the current retail spaces and (in my non-architect mind) build up the building on the top of that.
OR
2. If they demolish the current retail spaces, to have the ground floor to mimic the current retail space of three buildings with different exterior designs. Just like what Brickstone did to their Chestnut building behind the future East Market development.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by cpomp

If this tower were not located directly on Jewelers Row, how would everything about it be bad for the neighborhood? Its a conservative design that "fits" with the historic character of the city, it would infuse new residents into the area, and would still be 100' shorter than the St James 2 blocks away? I really don't get the logic.


And like I've said before, name a developer who actually cares about the neighborhood, they all want to line their pockets, that's what developers do!

Why didn't you just say that you want everyone's opinion as long as it agrees with yours?

I knew someone who was 3rd generation & who grew up over the family shop. I know what he said was important for the family as far as living there & having their shop there. I also had conversations when I went to the refinery. Those people said the same things were important to them. Adding a few hundred people to make it "lively" wasn't on their wish list.

It seems that you don't know people from that area & don't know or care what's important to them.

If Toll Brothers wanted the sites to rehab them, even if they wanted to add a floor, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me. Don't think for a minute that I am foolish enough to think that if some builder went to jewelers row in NYC or London & do the same thing that there wouldn't be a stink.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Why didn't you just say that you want everyone's opinion as long as it agrees with yours?

I knew someone who was 3rd generation & who grew up over the family shop. I know what he said was important for the family as far as living there & having their shop there. I also had conversations when I went to the refinery. Those people said the same things were important to them. Adding a few hundred people to make it "lively" wasn't on their wish list.

It seems that you don't know people from that area & don't know or care what's important to them.

If Toll Brothers wanted the sites to rehab them, even if they wanted to add a floor, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me. Don't think for a minute that I am foolish enough to think that that if some builder went to jewelers row in NYC or London & do the same thing that there wouldn't be a stink.

You stated before its totally wrong for the neighborhood. Did you mean the specific street or the entire area of Wash Sq? If you meant the street, sure I can respect your argument, if you meant Wash Sq in general, then it would make no sense to me why a new tower would not be anything but beneficial to the neighborhood.


I am sure people in NYC or London would make a stink in this instance due to the historic nature of the block, however people in NYC and London are generally more open to large scale development because the mindset if different in those cities.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by cpomp

You stated before its totally wrong for the neighborhood. Did you mean the specific street or the entire area of Wash Sq? If you meant the street, sure I can respect your argument, if you meant Wash Sq in general, then it would make no sense to me why a new tower would not be anything but beneficial to the neighborhood.


I am sure people in NYC or London would make a stink in this instance due to the historic nature of the block, however people in NYC and London are generally more open to large scale development because the mindset if different in those cities.

While jewelers row is a misnomer, it's not just Sansom St., but includes cross streets, I'm talking about any property on jewelers row. Adding a few hundred people messes with their security. I have known for decades that those people who live & work there like that it's an insular neighborhood. If they hear a noise at night, they look out the window &, if it's nobody that they know, they call the police. They watch out for each other. The shops could easily have a few million dollars of merchandise inside. That doesn't mean that the shopkeepers are millionaires & can afford to lose that merchandise in a break in or have their insurance jacked up because Toll Brothers has no respect for them & their neighborhood.

[MarketStEl]

From the looks of it, either Toll didn't ask the Inky's real estate reporter, Jacob Adelman, to embargo the story until 8 p.m. Tuesday or Adelman ignored the embargo.

The Business Journal's Natalie Kostelni honored it.

Two of us development mavens attended the meeting: Jake Blumgart of WHYY/Plan Philly and Yours Truly. Here's my report on what happened:

Toll Takes Wraps Off Jewelers Row Tower | Property | Philadelphia Magazine

From the looks of it, the stakeholders Toll has consulted consist of property owners on the block (and maybe the block behind the building) and business owners. It seems that the agreements of sale for the three buildings to be demolished prevent the company from speaking to their tenants directly.

They were the most vocal opponents of the project. At least one tenant I spoke with cast some aspersions on the way Toll obtained the agreements of sale from the owners, at least two of whom are elderly and perhaps unable to completely comprehend what they were signing. This tenant also suggested that Toll may have overpaid for the buildings, and wondered whether there were enough New Yorkers seeking more affordable digs in an urban environment to make this project a success; she pointed out to me that the St. James, a Scully-managed luxury apartment tower about a block away from this site, is only half occupied. (Maybe I should confirm this with Scully if I do anything more on this.)

As for the retail space on the ground floor, it seems that Toll was particularly interested in creating a large floorplate that did not necessarily conform to the doomed buildings' footprints. I don't think you can find 2600 sf of retail space in any of those three structures.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

From the looks of it, either Toll didn't ask the Inky's real estate reporter, Jacob Adelman, to embargo the story until 8 p.m. Tuesday or Adelman ignored the embargo.

The Business Journal's Natalie Kostelni honored it.

Two of us development mavens attended the meeting: Jake Blumgart of WHYY/Plan Philly and Yours Truly. Here's my report on what happened:

Toll Takes Wraps Off Jewelers Row Tower | Property | Philadelphia Magazine

From the looks of it, the stakeholders Toll has consulted consist of property owners on the block (and maybe the block behind the building) and business owners. It seems that the agreements of sale for the three buildings to be demolished prevent the company from speaking to their tenants directly.

They were the most vocal opponents of the project. At least one tenant I spoke with cast some aspersions on the way Toll obtained the agreements of sale from the owners, at least two of whom are elderly and perhaps unable to completely comprehend what they were signing. This tenant also suggested that Toll may have overpaid for the buildings, and wondered whether there were enough New Yorkers seeking more affordable digs in an urban environment to make this project a success; she pointed out to me that the St. James, a Scully-managed luxury apartment tower about a block away from this site, is only half occupied. (Maybe I should confirm this with Scully if I do anything more on this.)

As for the retail space on the ground floor, it seems that Toll was particularly interested in creating a large floorplate that did not necessarily conform to the doomed buildings' footprints. I don't think you can find 2600 sf of retail space in any of those three structures.

I find that very hard to believe. If its not too difficult for you to check up, you should. I don't know how reliable leasing websites are, but I found about a dozen apartments available in the building, which is clearly not 50% of the units.


Also, the St. James is an apartment tower, Toll's building will be condos, big difference in marketing strategies and demand. Look at 500 Walnut and One Riverside, sales have been very strong. And the majority of these expensive condo units that have been sold cater to wealthy suburbanites (a very small % of NYer's) and people who already live in Philadelphia. Seems like people are making up arguments.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

I agree that it will break up jewers row. Everything about it is bad for the neighborhood. Toll Brothers doesn't give a crap about the neighborhood, only lining their own pockets.

If you stay in Charlotte, you're unlikely to see it in person,right?

I see your point but bringing more people into the immediate area, which it probably will, is not a bad thing. It might bring some ,still needed, retail to that part of Chestnut St.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

If this tower were not located directly on Jewelers Row, how would everything about it be bad for the neighborhood? Its a conservative design that "fits" with the historic character of the city, it would infuse new residents into the area, and would still be 100' shorter than the St James 2 blocks away? I really don't get the logic.


And like I've said before, name a developer who actually cares about the neighborhood, they all want to line their pockets, that's what developers do!

Funnily, the height of the St James has never had a negative impact on Washington Sq, imo.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MB1562

Any other location it would be great. But it just seems so out of place in that neighborhood.

The St James is on the NW corner of Washington Sq. A building much taller than this project. It has no faux brick facade either. It's a strikingly different kind of building for the area. It's been there for about a decade.