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Old 02-15-2012, 10:29 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,749,800 times
Reputation: 4580

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Some of the Station spacing in ridiculous ...

2nd Street
5th Street
8th Street
11th Street
13th Street
15th Street
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Center City
147 posts, read 352,026 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome View Post
My bad. Point being that the trains are narrower. I guess it's the platform configuration that limits train width at this point.

yea, there must be less space tunnel wise under Market St. I can't find any data pertaining to the old Budd cars, that would be the only way to confirm the reasoning behind the narrower cars.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:36 AM
 
Location: back in Philadelphia!
3,263 posts, read 5,621,035 times
Reputation: 2120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darbarian View Post
yea, there must be less space tunnel wise under Market St. I can't find any data pertaining to the old Budd cars, that would be the only way to confirm the reasoning behind the narrower cars.
I guess it could be turning radii, although I think that's usually more of a car-length/axle-distance thing.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Center City
147 posts, read 352,026 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Some of the Station spacing in ridiculous ...

2nd Street
5th Street
8th Street
11th Street
13th Street
15th Street
I know, i think the spacing was due to the private funding of the original Market St. Subway. I know John Wanamaker had a hand in the construction, so he probably wanted a stop right at his flagship store at 13th and Market.

11th was probably from Reading Railroad pressure to have a connection to the Reading Terminal headhouse.

Who knows...

IMO, SEPTA should just shut those two stations down, and open up one at 12th St, but still have the connections to the Trolley and Market East. They already have the pedestrian tunnels built, so It won't be that big of a stretch.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Center City
147 posts, read 352,026 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome View Post
I guess it could be turning radii, although I think that's usually more of a car-length/axle-distance thing.

And the only real turns are in the 69th St. Yard, the at 45th St and the turn right after 2nd Street as it heads up to the Frankford EL.

They could have also been like that to make sure the trolleys and heavy rail were able to coexist in the same tunnel together as well.
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:47 AM
 
Location: The City
22,379 posts, read 38,678,927 times
Reputation: 7974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darbarian View Post
I know, i think the spacing was due to the private funding of the original Market St. Subway. I know John Wanamaker had a hand in the construction, so he probably wanted a stop right at his flagship store at 13th and Market.

11th was probably from Reading Railroad pressure to have a connection to the Reading Terminal headhouse.

Who knows...

IMO, SEPTA should just shut those two stations down, and open up one at 12th St, but still have the connections to the Trolley and Market East. They already have the pedestrian tunnels built, so It won't be that big of a stretch.

Yeah then nothing in todays true CBD of Market West, odd really
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:52 AM
 
Location: NYC/PHiLLY
857 posts, read 1,357,021 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darbarian View Post
Howard Eskin, is that you?

/sarcasm

Here are the dimension for the M-4's (The EL)
Width (Inches)9' 2"
Length (feet)55' 2"
Height 13' 0"


And here are the dimension for the B-IV's(BSL)

Width (Inches)10' 1-1/2" (3,086 mm)
Length (feet)67' 6"
Height 12' 3/32"



So you are correct in your assumption that the EL cars are smaller than the BSL cars. The M-4's are a lesson in design flaw. Yea, the ride is much smoother than what the M-3 Almond Joy's provided, but the lack of standing room hurts. Septa should look at adding an extra car to the rush hour trainsets.
Im sorry I dont follow the Howard Eskin reference

But a simple "Yes the EL cars are smaller than the BSL" would have sufficed. Its not that serious people..I think you guys are getting a little too sensitive over subway car observations. Breathe.
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: NYC/PHiLLY
857 posts, read 1,357,021 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome View Post
Thanks for the compliment.
Here's another genius fact for you: The BSL runs on wider gauge tracks, which is the main reason the individual cars are substantially larger and more spacious. (edit: oops some other genius said it first!)
But yes, I think the Market Frankford trains are poorly outfitted. The new smaller gauge R142 trains that Adtranz made for the old IRT lines on the MTA are a lot better IMO.
Thats really all I was saying, all the extra nonsense you gave is just that. Its not that serious, nor was I attacking you kid. Its just a subway car.
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Center City
147 posts, read 352,026 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Yeah then nothing in todays true CBD of Market West, odd really

Ahh, another oddity of the Market St. Subway. I guess the Trolleys were supposed to act as a type of "local" service. I don't think planners in the 1900's realized what that area of Market was destined to become.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:47 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,749,800 times
Reputation: 4580
lets look at some of the other rail cars from nyc / jersey...

Urban Jersey


PATH System madness for 12.30 - YouTube

IRT Subway


IRT Lexington Avenue line @ 28th - 33rd Streets , Spring Street , Wall Street & Bowling Green - YouTube

BMT Subway


BMT Broadway line @ 23rd & 28th Street - YouTube

IND Subway


IND Queens Boulevard Line @ Lexington Avenue - 53rd Street : E & M Trains - YouTube
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