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Old 02-07-2019, 08:09 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,209 posts, read 4,760,229 times
Reputation: 2472

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennsport View Post
Right, I guess that is technically 1/2 a block south of Old City, but I would wager that the majority of people consider that little curved section of 2nd/Front from Walnut to Dock street Old City rather than Society Hill. It's also very close to the wildly popular beer Garden just a couple hundred feet to the east. Just down the street at Front and Walnut, a mid-rise already exists. I think it's 11 or 12 floors.

And, think of it this way for a minute - there had to be a "first" tall building in every neighborhood before others joined. Everything was at one time was a low-rise neighborhood initially. The SH started this high-rise movement. Why should it suddenly stop there? This proposed corner lot IMO is the perfect place for a modest mid/high-rise (I'm not even sure how 30 stories is classified) to anchor the southern section of Old City, connect to the river, and bring a lot of activity and buzz to an oddly under-appreciated block of Front and Dock to Front and Walnut.

Society Hill NIMBYs are not short on connections, so I won't be surprised in the least if this project gets nixed. Hopefully it won't get scraped entirely and a comprise regarding height can be met. I personally would still be happy with a 15 or 20 story building. I guess we'll see soon enough...
I never understood that argument. Like how does the difference between 30 stories and 20 stories affect the quality of life in the neighborhood or at street level?

Even the Laurel Tower in Rittenhouse was chopped from 56 or 52 stories to 48 stories.

The point? I think its almost like a calming effect on the NIMBYS, they don't get what they want (which is no tower at all), but they must feel like they got some sort of consolation prize for changing the height.

And it has been proven that a shorter tower often results in a less than desirable design and usually equates to a blob looking building. I think 30 stories is appropriate for this lot, it essentially matches the height of the SHT.

As I mentioned earlier, I would be open for debate on material selection and interaction at ground level though. Those are the only arguments that are plausible in my mind. Everything else is white noise issues.

I think this proposed tower is almost a right of way, so Society Hill neighbors would have to pull some serious strings to get this thing derailed.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:13 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,209 posts, read 4,760,229 times
Reputation: 2472
https://www.philly.com/real-estate/c...-20190207.html

Office building proposed by stadium complex.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:16 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,209 posts, read 4,760,229 times
Reputation: 2472
Also, sorry to be all over the place with posts... I like to share these stats from the City v City threads...

Philadelphia as a metro area performs quite well against its peers. Per capita is ahead of Chicago, LA, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston and many others. And as Philadelphia itself improves, I could see these numbers creeping up at a quicker rate.

2017 Total Personal Income, by MSA
1. NYC MSA: $1,443,163.1 million
2. Los Angeles MSA: $802,394.1 million
3. Chicago MSA: $555,922.4 million
4. DC MSA: $432,558 million
5. San Francisco MSA: $432,359.9 million
6. Dallas MSA: $392,145.5 million
7. Philadelphia MSA: $377,223.1 million
8. Houston MSA: $363,677.1 million
9. Boston MSA: $358,021.1 million
10. Miami MSA: $330,928.7 million

2017 Per Capita Personal Income, by MSA
1. Bridgeport, CT MSA: $110,104
2. San Jose MSA: $96,623
3. San Francisco MSA: $91,459
4. Boston MSA: $74,024
5. NYC MSA: $71,019
6. DC MSA: $69,581
7. Seattle MSA: $69,214
8. Philadelphia MSA: $61,879
9. Hartford, CT MSA: $61,353
10. Santa Rosa, CA MSA: $60,286
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
4,191 posts, read 2,028,108 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
So are you advocating for this project to not happen? Or do you want a a different material selection and some sort of set back? I am confused.
Well, I'd really rather it didn't, but I'm not so opposed that I'd try to shoot it down.

I would rather the architects went back to the drawing board and came up with something that fit in a little better with its neighbors. Choice of materials, massing, you name it.

I don't think this building's lot is separate from that of the hotel. If it's not, maybe they might want to consider demolishing the current hotel and replacing it with something taller that incorporates both hotel rooms and residences. (Execpt that might not make the project pencil out.)
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
4,191 posts, read 2,028,108 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
I never understood that argument. Like how does the difference between 30 stories and 20 stories affect the quality of life in the neighborhood or at street level?

Even the Laurel Tower in Rittenhouse was chopped from 56 or 52 stories to 48 stories.

The point? I think its almost like a calming effect on the NIMBYS, they don't get what they want (which is no tower at all), but they must feel like they got some sort of consolation prize for changing the height.

And it has been proven that a shorter tower often results in a less than desirable design and usually equates to a blob looking building. I think 30 stories is appropriate for this lot, it essentially matches the height of the SHT.

As I mentioned earlier, I would be open for debate on material selection and interaction at ground level though. Those are the only arguments that are plausible in my mind. Everything else is white noise issues.

I think this proposed tower is almost a right of way, so Society Hill neighbors would have to pull some serious strings to get this thing derailed.
The Laurel was chopped from 60 to 56 stories. It will still be the tallest residential tower in the city.

And the Rittenhouse residents didn't behave like NIMBYs either. As they did with Pearl Properties' Harper, they hired an architect (Cecil Baker in both cases), formed a stakeholders' committee, and contacted the developer to suggest alternatives that could achieve both the developers' goals and theirs.

As the head of that committee said to Tim Downey of Southern Land, "We don't lawyer up. We architect up."

Their four biggest wants were: an exterior that was more in harmony with that of its Rittenhouse Square neighbors'; the preservation of three historic structures on the Sansom Street side (Southern Land had originally planned to demolish all three); no garage entrances or exits on Sansom or Moravian streets (where the original design had placed them); and a percentage of the units set aside as affordable housing.

They got everything they wanted except the preservation of one of the three historic structures. One of the two that were saved will house the bulk of the affordable units.

Downey had nothing but praise for the Rittenhouse residents when everything was said and done.

The Society Hillers ought to take note.

I believe this tower is being built by right - but because of its total square footage, it must pass through CDR. That process is merely advisory, however, and not legally binding upon the builder.
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:00 PM
 
8,668 posts, read 4,756,955 times
Reputation: 2897
Not Philly. But I just saw a headline that Amazon is re-thinking the hq in NY (????)
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Old 02-09-2019, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Center City
6,662 posts, read 7,520,442 times
Reputation: 8913
The state is poised to raise the historic tax credit five-fold: from $250K per project to $2.5M: https://www.philly.com/news/historic...-20190206.html

One of the few times I can recall since living here that the legislature is considering allocating money that might significantly benefit the city.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:13 AM
 
Location: The City
22,141 posts, read 31,412,754 times
Reputation: 7616
https://kywnewsradio.radio.com/artic...alled-pattison
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Old 02-09-2019, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,326 posts, read 7,334,578 times
Reputation: 4081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
The state is poised to raise the historic tax credit five-fold: from $250K per project to $2.5M: https://www.philly.com/news/historic...-20190206.html

One of the few times I can recall since living here that the legislature is considering allocating money that might significantly benefit the city.
That's incredible news! Thanks for sharing. Would definitely be welcome news for so many older cities and towns across the state where that kind of incentive makes a huge difference.
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Old 02-13-2019, 02:46 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,209 posts, read 4,760,229 times
Reputation: 2472
https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/...a-johnson-fbi/

Is Kenyatta's time almost up?
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