What parts of philly feel/look like one of the boroughs of New York? (Philadelphia: buy, vs)

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by SirGreenDown

Yeah I really dont get when people say that. Outside of rowhomes, what's so similar about them? like can someone really breakdown what's so similar about them?

Im from Queens, and lived in NE Philly for 6 years (Recently back in Queens for work.) Have plenty of friends in baltimore who went to morgan and I go down there to see them a couple times a year. But its no Philly, or even a "twin" of Philly. In my experience the vibe is completely different, Philly is a much more massive city in every way. Philly has so many interesting layers (that baltimore lacks I think), with its strong art/music scene, How crazy Philly people are about their sports,beer and food. I dont see the mom and pop shops/bodegas/crown chicken spots that you find if Philly or NYC. Where is the comparable transit system? Where is the comparable shopping/nightlife/restaurants/Parks/Festivals etc? The culture is just different. The accent thing is false. Baltimore people have this weird twang/southern thing when they talk, not that its bad..just funny sounding (although I thought people in Philly sounded different too, but not as drastic as Baltimore). When I brought a friend up to Philly from maryland for the first time (Ft Washington, MD to be exact). He kept jabbing "Oh Philly people think they're little new yorkers, with the coffee shops and newspaper stands they even sound like them a little." I've always felt more at home in Philly than I ever have in ANY place in baltimore.

I don't think anyone ever said Philly and Baltimore were "twins". Just that it's more similar to Baltimore than it is to NYC. And I agree with that.
Philly is of course a much bigger city than Baltimore - it's more than twice the size. But it's still a LOT closer in size to Baltimore, than it is to NYC, both proportionally and in raw numbers.
They have a lot of physical similarities, as already noted. They also have a lot of historical parallels. Both were capitals of the US for a brief period and played prominent parts in the revolutionary war. Both were the 2nd largest city in the USA for a while, and both were extremely close in size until Philly annexed all of its surrounding townships in 1854 to jump ahead. Both experienced lots of decline in the post-industrial era. Both have been turning things around in the last 30 years and now have bright futures.. They are and have been demographically fairly similar. They both DO have a distinctive mid-atlantic accent (even if not 100% identical) etc, etc... Baltimore has a (small) subway system, a substantial light rail system, and a large bus system, so it's not like there's no public transportation there.
Baltimore is a great city, and hugely important historically. Nothing bad about being compared to it.
And I'd argue that Baltimore can actually give Philly a run for its money with its art & music scene - but this is already off topic, and this isn't the city vs city forum, so I'm not going to get into it.

[FindingZen]

While Philly vs. Baltimore tangent is interesting as well - and I'm as "guilty" as anyone for going off-topic - let's return to the comparison between Philadelphia and certain NYC boroughs.

[SirGreenDown]

Originally Posted by rotodome

I don't think anyone ever said Philly and Baltimore were "twins". Just that it's more similar to Baltimore than it is to NYC. And I agree with that.
Philly is of course a much bigger city than Baltimore - it's more than twice the size. But it's still a LOT closer in size to Baltimore, than it is to NYC, both proportionally and in raw numbers.
They have a lot of physical similarities, as already noted. They also have a lot of historical parallels. Both were capitals of the US for a brief period and played prominent parts in the revolutionary war. Both were the 2nd largest city in the USA for a while, and both were extremely close in size until Philly annexed all of its surrounding townships in 1854 to jump ahead. Both experienced lots of decline in the post-industrial era. Both have been turning things around in the last 30 years and now have bright futures.. They are and have been demographically fairly similar. They both DO have a distinctive mid-atlantic accent (even if not 100% identical) etc, etc... Baltimore has a (small) subway system, a substantial light rail system, and a large bus system, so it's not like there's no public transportation there.
Baltimore is a great city, and hugely important historically. Nothing bad about being compared to it.
And I'd argue that Baltimore can actually give Philly a run for its money with its art & music scene - but this is already off topic, and this isn't the city vs city forum, so I'm not going to get into it.

Yeah I've seen that said quite a bit, especially in the city vs city forum. I never said that Philly is anywhere near the size NYC, or anything close to it. Because it's not. Outside of row homes, they're pretty different. Culturally, day to day life, amenities, etc Philly and Baltimore are completely different animals. Housing stock is where the buck stops. But for the record, I never said there was anything bad either, I just asked what are the specific similarities. The case you made in response.. history, post industrial decline, having a bright future etc..a lot of cities fit that bill. Even with talk about history so does NYC and Boston (if not more so than any other city) have parallel history with Philly, so I don't think that's the best metric to use either. They have similar demographics? Large black populations? what else? Baltimore has a huge Italian, Puerto Rican and sizable Asian population? where? I've never been to that Baltimore. I also never said Baltimore didn't have any public transportation, I asked was it comparable to Philly's? and you and I both know the answer is No. You're defending it as if I said it (Baltimore) was crap, when I just asked how they were "So similar." But as the powers that be have stated this is completely off topic, some other time.

[rotodome]

Well, apparently a lot of people have a different opinion than you. I'm only talking about what was said in this thread, on this forum. You are demanding backup for opinions not stated here. The only marginally on-topic issue is whether Philadelphia shares more similarities with Baltimore than with NYC. And I and others think that it does.

[2e1m5a]

The only areas I can think of off the top of my head are Riverdale and Chestnut Hill but this is on a block vs block comparison and not really the neighborhoods as a whole.

Templetown and Harlem is interesting though.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by rotodome

Well, apparently a lot of people have a different opinion than you. I'm only talking about what was said in this thread, on this forum. You are demanding backup for opinions not stated here. The only marginally on-topic issue is whether Philadelphia shares more similarities with Baltimore than with NYC. And I and others think that it does.

That's what I was saying. All 3 are different, but think that it would be easier to find the differences between NYC & Philadelphia. I think that it would be a more extensive list. NYC's roots are Dutch. While parts of Philadelphia were part of New Sweden, the roots are English.

Philadelphia stands alone for its historic districts, thanks, in part, to Edmund Bacon. Prior to Willard Rouse building Liberty I & breaking the gentleman's agreement, comparisons always tilted to Baltimore vs anywhere in NYC, in spite of the size differences. Can you find some isolated similarities to areas in NYC? Of course, but not to Manhattan.

[SirGreenDown]

Originally Posted by rotodome

Well, apparently a lot of people have a different opinion than you. I'm only talking about what was said in this thread, on this forum. You are demanding backup for opinions not stated here. The only marginally on-topic issue is whether Philadelphia shares more similarities with Baltimore than with NYC. And I and others think that it does.

I'm not demanding anything, I asked. You attempted to sell me on Baltimore as a city, when that wasn't even what was requested (or demanded.) You and 2 other people can share the same opinion that's fine, I only asked for specific similarities. You responded with a love song about baltimore. And because you and "others" share a difference of opinion than I that means what? Come on Roto, you're better than that.

[rotodome]

Hmm, I read it again, and I think I responded with pretty concise facts that were parallels between the cities. But I'm not going to fight on the internet about it, so carry on.

[SirGreenDown]

Good move.

[scosm]

I think this thread kind of went off the rails since some people are comparing the vibes and amenities of various cities and some are comparing about row home architecture and streetscapes.

My little rant is that it bugs me when people want to use NYC as a whole or Brooklyn or whatever as a measuring stick for Philly's progress. We should appreciate the differences more so -- like affordable homes, the ease in owning/parking a car in most neighborhoods, the different vibe we have here -- rather than try to emulate what they have there. Brooklyn is a wonderful place but has similar problems as Philadelphia with certain neighborhoods doing great while a majority of the city lags behind. And believe it or not, there are things that Philly has that Brooklyn doesn't (I am an ex-Brooklynite myself). I would like Philly to be one of the hip places to be, but I think we should be careful to wish for the kind of rapid gentrification in certain neighborhoods there (not that there aren't a lot of positive examples to take). /End rant