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Old 04-04-2012, 10:08 PM
 
5 posts, read 4,048 times
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Oh I forgot, it's EXPENSIVE!!!
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:32 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,757 posts, read 2,239,164 times
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I wonder: How much do all the people screaming about how "expensive" SEPTA is think public transit is supposed to cost? 50 cent rides with a complimentary ice cream cone?
Is there another major city transit system in the US that has fares that are substantially cheaper than SEPTA? If so, please name it.
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Old 04-05-2012, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
877 posts, read 867,383 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome View Post
I wonder: How much do all the people screaming about how "expensive" SEPTA is think public transit is supposed to cost? 50 cent rides with a complimentary ice cream cone?
Is there another major city transit system in the US that has fares that are substantially cheaper than SEPTA? If so, please name it.
I lived in Minneapolis for years, and it was 2.25 for a rush hour trip. 1.75 for a non-rush hour trip. Both more expensive than a token here (although you do get a free transfer). 85 dollars for a rush hour monthly pass in MPLS, 83 here. Don't worry about a "trailpass" in MPLS, there's just one joke of a passenger rail line. And we're just taking about prices - the service there can't even be compared with what SEPTA offers in rapid transit, light rail, buses, many 24 hour routes, regional rail (Plus NJ Transit, Patco, not to mention access to serious Amtrak lines).

And that's Minneapolis, where it's not even that bad compared to the rest of America.

People's whining about SEPTA just drives me nuts as someone who has always relied in public transit. You hear it all over the place, and it comes off as uninformed and entitled, in my opinion.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista
2,296 posts, read 1,709,084 times
Reputation: 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat View Post
I lived in Minneapolis for years, and it was 2.25 for a rush hour trip. 1.75 for a non-rush hour trip. Both more expensive than a token here (although you do get a free transfer). 85 dollars for a rush hour monthly pass in MPLS, 83 here. Don't worry about a "trailpass" in MPLS, there's just one joke of a passenger rail line. And we're just taking about prices - the service there can't even be compared with what SEPTA offers in rapid transit, light rail, buses, many 24 hour routes, regional rail (Plus NJ Transit, Patco, not to mention access to serious Amtrak lines).

And that's Minneapolis, where it's not even that bad compared to the rest of America.

People's whining about SEPTA just drives me nuts as someone who has always relied in public transit. You hear it all over the place, and it comes off as uninformed and entitled, in my opinion.
haha it always seems to me that most of the people who ***** and moan about septa are people who have used it perhaps 5 times in their lives.

complaining that septa costs too much... haha what a joke.
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:01 PM
 
147 posts, read 111,270 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
I am not saying I wouldn't appreciate a modern fare system; but if you have this much difficulty riding the subway than septa is far from your only problem.

I ride the subway frequently. My trips never involve Chinese restaurants or wallowing around in bum urine. For that matter my trips also never involve paying a two dollar fare or directly speaking to a septa employee.

The public transportation in this city could be better and some of Septa's choices are perplexing to say the least. It is despite this one of the best transportation systems in the country though and if you have anywhere near this level of difficulty then you foundering pretty severely.
Captain obvious, anybody who uses a system every day understands it. I've painstakenly gotten my transpass at Suburban or Walnut for years.

However, if you can step out of your little point of view you would see how visitors from other towns and suburbs see your town and you would have found that funny instead of defending the disgusting, dysfunctional cave that is SEPTA heavy rail. If you think that Septa is a user-friendly transit system, you need to get out more. Attitudes like yours are why Septa still uses tokens in the first place.
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Old 04-06-2012, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
877 posts, read 867,383 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_Warrior View Post
Captain obvious, anybody who uses a system every day understands it. I've painstakenly gotten my transpass at Suburban or Walnut for years.

However, if you can step out of your little point of view you would see how visitors from other towns and suburbs see your town and you would have found that funny instead of defending the disgusting, dysfunctional cave that is SEPTA heavy rail. If you think that Septa is a user-friendly transit system, you need to get out more. Attitudes like yours are why Septa still uses tokens in the first place.
I really didn't think septa was too hard to figure out when I moved here. It's a transit system, it works like most of the rest of them. Of course a visitor or a suburbanite who rarely takes it can get confused - that's as obvious as someone who does take it everyday not being confused.

What exactly should be improved? Besides the smart-card system which is already coming (and, by the way, I don't think tokens are really much of a hassle, but I do welcome the new system).
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista
2,296 posts, read 1,709,084 times
Reputation: 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_Warrior View Post
Captain obvious, anybody who uses a system every day understands it. I've painstakenly gotten my transpass at Suburban or Walnut for years.

However, if you can step out of your little point of view you would see how visitors from other towns and suburbs see your town and you would have found that funny instead of defending the disgusting, dysfunctional cave that is SEPTA heavy rail. If you think that Septa is a user-friendly transit system, you need to get out more. Attitudes like yours are why Septa still uses tokens in the first place.
I think you need to get out more. I've used transit systems in cities all over this country and multiple others. a few off them work better than septa, most do not and not a single one is exactly tourist/customer friendly (okay maybe seattle). If you're going to be a tourist in Philadelphia you could perhaps takes 5 min to familiarize yourself with the system, just as i take a few minutes to familiarize myself with the ins and outs of the systems in the cities I visit.

I have no qualms with septa making moves to make the system easier for outsiders to understand... but the expectations that some people have are ridiculous. i've ridden on the systems that people regularly cite as among the world's best, london, nyc, etc. even these systems would likely fall short of some of the absurd complaints levied at septa. I really don't believe there are people complaining that septa is too expensive!

being unrelentingly negative does nothing.

and if picking up your transpass is such a terrible pain, why don't you order it online and have it mailed to you like i do.

there are plenty of things to complain about septa, let's not complain about unrealistic expectations and non existent or already solved problems at least.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:00 PM
 
147 posts, read 111,270 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat View Post
I really didn't think septa was too hard to figure out when I moved here. It's a transit system, it works like most of the rest of them. Of course a visitor or a suburbanite who rarely takes it can get confused - that's as obvious as someone who does take it everyday not being confused.

What exactly should be improved? Besides the smart-card system which is already coming (and, by the way, I don't think tokens are really much of a hassle, but I do welcome the new system).
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
I think you need to get out more. I've used transit systems in cities all over this country and multiple others. a few off them work better than septa, most do not and not a single one is exactly tourist/customer friendly (okay maybe seattle). If you're going to be a tourist in Philadelphia you could perhaps takes 5 min to familiarize yourself with the system, just as i take a few minutes to familiarize myself with the ins and outs of the systems in the cities I visit.

I have no qualms with septa making moves to make the system easier for outsiders to understand... but the expectations that some people have are ridiculous. i've ridden on the systems that people regularly cite as among the world's best, london, nyc, etc. even these systems would likely fall short of some of the absurd complaints levied at septa. I really don't believe there are people complaining that septa is too expensive!

being unrelentingly negative does nothing.

and if picking up your transpass is such a terrible pain, why don't you order it online and have it mailed to you like i do.

there are plenty of things to complain about septa, let's not complain about unrealistic expectations and non existent or already solved problems at least.

Ok, since you guys asked:

First, if I have a card, and I'm in NY or DC, I can get a pass, daily, one trip, no problem. I shouldn't have to order it over the internet and wait, or go during certain hours to a certain station in the middle of town.

If I have a problem on MBTA in Boston, I actually get help from the staff, as they actually do something for their job.

NYC MTA, Patco, DC, LA, NJ Transit... all way cleaner than SEPTA. SEPTA's trains are horrendously disgusting late at night.

3 times now somebody has given me a "F" on my passes for not paying attention and I've gotten denied bus rides because they accused me of using my girlfriend's pass.

SEPTA bus drivers FREQUENTLY drive past people waiting for the bus and have no regrets.

SEPTA has numerous crimes occur right in front of the bus driver's eyes yet they do little or nothing, usually when it's too late.

SEPTA doesn't have any heavy rail in it's largest and most populated district (NE Phila.)

SEPTA almost entirely ignores one of its 5 counties - Chester

SEPTA is crap. The fact that people who have no standards are happy with such underachievement is the reason that its employees get away with anything - nobody holds them accountable.

Their workers get awesome pay, benefits, pensions, and they still strike and treat people like crap, as they're being rude to people, double parked talking to other bus drivers, talking and texting on their phone and stranding people because they don't pay attention.

I understand you guys may have low standards and be glad that Phila does have mass transit, but I don't. There's no reason SEPTA should do nothing more or different than it did in the '70s. No city with as much ridership and as much infrastructure as has SEPTA should be so behind in progress. There's no excuse.

If other cities can do so much more, so much better than Phila's SEPTA, for the same fares, what is happening with the extra money? $3,000 lunches? Yep, probably.

Last edited by Road_Warrior; 04-08-2012 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ area
6,667 posts, read 3,933,854 times
Reputation: 3671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_Warrior View Post
Ok, since you guys asked:

First, if I have a card, and I'm in NY or DC, I can get a pass, daily, one trip, no problem. I shouldn't have to order it over the internet and wait, or go during certain hours to a certain station in the middle of town.

If I have a problem on MBTA in Boston, I actually get help from the staff, as they actually do something for their job.

NYC MTA, Patco, DC, LA, NJ Transit... all way cleaner than SEPTA. SEPTA's trains are horrendously disgusting late at night.

3 times now somebody has given me a "F" on my passes for not paying attention and I've gotten denied bus rides because they accused me of using my girlfriend's pass.

SEPTA bus drivers FREQUENTLY drive past people waiting for the bus and have no regrets.

SEPTA has numerous crimes occur right in front of the bus driver's eyes yet they do little or nothing, usually when it's too late.

SEPTA doesn't have any heavy rail in it's largest and most populated district (NE Phila.)

SEPTA almost entirely ignores one of its 5 counties - Chester

SEPTA is crap. The fact that people who have no standards are happy with such underachievement is the reason that its employees get away with anything - nobody holds them accountable.

Their workers get awesome pay, benefits, pensions, and they still strike and treat people like crap, as they're being rude to people, double parked talking to other bus drivers, talking and texting on their phone and stranding people because they don't pay attention.

I understand you guys may have low standards and be glad that Phila does have mass transit, but I don't. There's no reason SEPTA should do nothing more or different than it did in the '70s. No city with as much ridership and as much infrastructure as has SEPTA should be so behind in progress. There's no excuse.

If other cities can do so much more, so much better than Phila's SEPTA, for the same fares, what is happening with the extra money? $3,000 lunches? Yep, probably.
Septa has its problems but it's still one of the best transit systems in the country. When it comes to transit options, Septa beats every other city except for the New York Tri-State area and Chicagoland.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
877 posts, read 867,383 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
First, if I have a card, and I'm in NY or DC, I can get a pass, daily, one trip, no problem. I shouldn't have to order it over the internet and wait, or go during certain hours to a certain station in the middle of town.

3 times now somebody has given me a "F" on my passes for not paying attention and I've gotten denied bus rides because they accused me of using my girlfriend's pass.
Those aren't really going to be an issue after the new payment technology, something I already said I was glad to see coming.

Quote:
SEPTA doesn't have any heavy rail in it's largest and most populated district (NE Phila.)
This goes into a whole other argument that's been had many times about whether people up through the NE actually even want rapid transit.

Besides that, the Market Frankford line ends in Frankford, in the NE, even if it's not the nice part of the NE. It would be great to see a Broad Street Line extension up the boulevard, but rapid transit is a complicated thing these days. You can't really blame septa for it. Look at all the hassle NYC has with their subway extension.

Beyond that, for "heavy rail" the Trenton, West Trenton, and Fox Chase lines all serve Northeast Philadelphia. I get that A) it's not rapid transit and B) the regional rail is where SEPTA has a lot of its lost potential. But it's heavy rail. You get a one seat, comfortable ride downtown.

Quote:
SEPTA almost entirely ignores one of its 5 counties - Chester
If SEPTA could figure out how to make mass transit work in a serious way in the suburbs, that would be great for them. They'd be the first. Aside from that, which isn't going to happen, the Paoli/Thorndale line serves 6 million people a year with a big part of its route being in Chester Country.


Quote:
SEPTA has numerous crimes occur right in front of the bus driver's eyes yet they do little or nothing, usually when it's too late.
You don't think that SEPTA drivers care about crimes being committed on the bus? I used to see crime all the time on Metro Transit in Minneapolis. Theft, drug deals, prostitution in transit shelters. These guys aren't cops, and are often targets of the criminals themselves. They want it to stop, probably more than you do.

It's not just in Philadelphia where public transit is dirty, workers are paid well and go on strike, and bus drivers can miss people waiting for a stop.
You wouldn't be happy with public transit anywhere. Visiting a place like Boston and taking a leisure trip is different than having to deal with the system day in and day out. If you lived there and depended on it everyday, you'd have your own issue with it. A lot of people up there want a connection between North and South station - something we've had for a while now here in Philadelphia. People up there complain about only having 2 tracks - we've got 4 tracks on our Broad Street Line (which is awesome when you catch and express of ridge-spur train). They probably complain about other things too. It's still a good system, just like ours is.
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