Navy Yard, Broad St Line, and more. (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: home, transfer)
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But the flight line leading int PHL is the killer. You really have no way of building residential areas,and expect any outdoor experience 2.5 miles directly in front of the runway. Planes are coming in for landings at a continuous rate (2-5 minutes). I haven't been down to the Navy Yard for a while, or with it in mind to observe this, so maybe its not as bad as Im imagining, since the 2004 plan never bothered to mention this.
FWIW, my friends who have worked down there say that from inside their building(s), you can't hear anything. Noise insulation for residential properties would probably be very expensive though.
It would be nice, but I would not hold my breath for any extension of the subway.
If I had any criticism of the OP plan, it's that it's not engaging the waterfront very well, which is something I think any new planning endeavor for Philadelphia (or any post-industrial city in the 21st century) needs to address. Like...think less Piazza at Schmidt's, and more Piazza San Marco.
What you see is what you get as far as rail transit goes in Philadelphia.
Sorry folks but that's the way it is. I don't expect any expansions in my lifetime and I'm only in my 20s.
You're not very optimistic then lol. There will def be a broad st line extension in your life time completed and two light rail lines completed. One along the Delaware Water front and one connected the Zoo/Please Touch Museum/Centennial District with Center City.
You're not very optimistic then lol. There will def be a broad st line extension in your life time completed and two light rail lines completed. One along the Delaware Water front and one connected the Zoo/Please Touch Museum/Centennial District with Center City.
For comparison, the 2nd Ave subway extension in NYC has been a plan in progress for 75 years and counting (an average lifespan) and they just pushed back phase I completion again (2016 now).
And that's for a line that's running at capacity, in a system with the highest ridership in the country, in a city currently at it's peak population that's projected to gain a million more people in the next few decades. So there are a lot more motivating reasons to finish it than there are for a BSL extension, and it's still dragging. So it would be shocking to me if septa got a subway extension together more expeditiously, but I guess we'll see (If we live long enough).
I can see maybe some light rail getting done. Even a light rail connection between CC and fairmount park would be wonderful, and a big improvement over those "trolley bus" things they used to do the job when I was a kid.
For comparison, the 2nd Ave subway extension in NYC has been a plan in progress for 75 years and counting (an average lifespan) and they just pushed back phase I completion again (2016 now).
And that's for a line that's running at capacity, in a system with the highest ridership in the country, in a city currently at it's peak population that's projected to gain a million more people in the next few decades. So there are a lot more motivating reasons to finish it than there are for a BSL extension, and it's still dragging. So it would be shocking to me if septa got a subway extension together more expeditiously, but I guess we'll see (If we live long enough).
I can see maybe some light rail getting done. Even a light rail connection between CC and fairmount park would be wonderful, and a big improvement over those "trolley bus" things they used to do the job when I was a kid.
Obviously these lines have far less demand than the 2nd street extension. So i understand where you going with the logic, if they can't get the 2nd street extension done in NYC what hope is there for an extended broad street line, a river line, a zoo line, etc in philly?
At the same time though the reasons why the 2nd extension is SO in demand are also the same reasons why it's not getting done.
The logistics of building a new subway line right through Manhattan are obviously ridiculous.
The four main lines I hear about here in philly is the extension of the Broad Street down the navel yard, a surface line along the delaware, a connection to the zoo, and some type of light rail or subway line serving the NE.
Other than the NE line none of these plans are particularly daunting logistically speaking. certainly no where near as complicated and expensive as putting in a subway line through Manhattan.
So I could def see a scenario where they are able to extend the BSL here while the 2nd street line continues to be delayed...I mean after all it doesn't have to extend all that far to reach the navy yard and if the work force and resident population of the navy yard continues to explode like it has been it will be well worthwhile... not to mention the incentive to get something like that done now because the longer you wait and the more dense that area becomes the harder and more expensive it will be to work.
The surface lines are obviously far easier, especially the delaware river front one, and I could def see those getting finished in my lifetime.
A subway to the NE though??? Sounds very expensive and quite an undertaking. I don't see that happening.
Obviously these lines have far less demand than the 2nd street extension. So i understand where you going with the logic, if they can't get the 2nd street extension done in NYC what hope is there for an extended broad street line, a river line, a zoo line, etc in philly?
At the same time though the reasons why the 2nd extension is SO in demand are also the same reasons why it's not getting done.
The logistics of building a new subway line right through Manhattan are obviously ridiculous.
The four main lines I hear about here in philly is the extension of the Broad Street down the navel yard, a surface line along the delaware, a connection to the zoo, and some type of light rail or subway line serving the NE.
Other than the NE line none of these plans are particularly daunting logistically speaking. certainly no where near as complicated and expensive as putting in a subway line through Manhattan.
So I could def see a scenario where they are able to extend the BSL here while the 2nd street line continues to be delayed...I mean after all it doesn't have to extend all that far to reach the navy yard and if the work force and resident population of the navy yard continues to explode like it has been it will be well worthwhile... not to mention the incentive to get something like that done now because the longer you wait and the more dense that area becomes the harder and more expensive it will be to work.
The surface lines are obviously far easier, especially the delaware river front one, and I could def see those getting finished in my lifetime.
A subway to the NE though??? Sounds very expensive and quite an undertaking. I don't see that happening.
The Roosevelt Blvd surface light rail would be a much less expensive project than a BSL extension that would have much bigger positive impact on the city. It was part of the original plan for the Blvd that was never built. Very unlikely it would be an actual subway though, but that's fine. The blvd is in dire need of a streetscape redesign anyway, as it is literally one of the most dangerous stretches of road in the USA for pedestrians.
The Delaware riverfront is an easy one, as it's largely just replacing a line that was already there before not so long ago, so I can see that.
The Zoo Line could also be a project that involves replacing light rail that was there before and was removed (although in conjunction with something that went down the parkway to the museum(s) and the mouth of the park it could be a really great thing), so I can see that one.
But I don't see the BSL extension as an easy sell or an easy undertaking, especially when the existing line is already running below capacity with reduced service.
Last edited by rotodome; 03-30-2012 at 01:53 PM..
Reason: added link to blvd info
The Roosevelt Blvd surface light rail would be a much less expensive project than a BSL extension that would have much bigger positive impact on the city. It was part of the original plan for the Blvd that was never built. Very unlikely it would be an actual subway though, but that's fine. The blvd is in dire need of a streetscape redesign anyway, as it is literally one of the most dangerous stretches of road in the USA for pedestrians.
The Delaware riverfront is an easy one, as it's largely just replacing a line that was already there before not so long ago, so I can see that.
The Zoo Line could also be a project that involves replacing light rail that was there before and was removed (although in conjunction with something that went down the parkway to the museum(s) and the mouth of the park it could be a really great thing), so I can see that one.
But I don't see the BSL extension as an easy sell or an easy undertaking, especially when the existing line is already running below capacity with reduced service.
Would love to see womthing like this and also maybe down Fairmont Ave or something
the broad st line is under capacity because it's half built. it was intended to be the trunk line for a subway with branches to germantown, the northeast, west oak lane, west passyunk, the navy yard (then league island).
the broad st line is under capacity because it's half built. it was intended to be the trunk line for a subway with branches to germantown, the northeast, west oak lane, west passyunk, the navy yard (then league island).
well I mean technically the whole city is under capacity, as it's down 25% from peak population. And the BSL did and does act as a trunk line for the city's streetcar (and now mostly bus) network.
If anything I think Philly's public transit is more characterized by overbuilt infrastructure running with limited service to fit its actual ridership than by half-built infrastructure (but yes I know it's not that simple). It's great situation if the city population booms again and grows past it's peak population, but not a great argument for the necessity of speculative new pricey underground heavy rail.
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