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Old 04-07-2014, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,467,331 times
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It's very remarkable that less than 30 years ago Philly didn't have any tall skyscraper buildings, yet the city was able to catch up and even surpass many other cities when it comes to skylines. Now you can make a strong argument that Philly has the 3rd best skyline in the country.
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,467,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
montgomery county was originally part of philadelphia but they seceded. as far as i can see its a shame the city isnt smaller, plenty of nice neighborhoods trapped inside a failed school system
At the very least Philly's population would be just as large, if not larger than Chicago.
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:32 PM
 
9,866 posts, read 10,118,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UDResident View Post
New York became "New York" after the Erie Canal was built in the 19th Century but moreso with the rise of show business.

Philadelphia's population and industry might've exploded in the late 19th and early 20th Century but its status started before the United States even existed.
I agree with your basic point that Philadelphia was the preeminent city in colonial USA. But New York was on equal footing with Philadelphia even before the Erie Canal was built between 1817 and 1825.

By 1820 NYC was 25% larger than the sum of all three cities in Philadelphia county (Philadelphia city would absorb Philadelphia county in 1855).

123,706 New York city, NY
63,802 Philadelphia city, PA
19,678 Northern Liberties district, PA
14,713 Southwark district, PA


By 1860 NYC and Brooklyn were over a million people, while Philadelphia was just over half a million.

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Old 04-08-2014, 06:33 AM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,955,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001 View Post
It's kind of hard to argue with logic like that. The illusion counts for more than the facts?
Draw a circle around Houston with it's 6.5 million people (or whatever it is).

Now draw the same sized circle around Philadelphia.

Philly wins every time.
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Philly
9,922 posts, read 14,047,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
I agree with your basic point that Philadelphia was the preeminent city in colonial USA. But New York was on equal footing with Philadelphia even before the Erie Canal was built between 1817 and 1825.

By 1820 NYC was 25% larger than the sum of all three cities in Philadelphia county (Philadelphia city would absorb Philadelphia county in 1855).

123,706 New York city, NY
63,802 Philadelphia city, PA
19,678 Northern Liberties district, PA
14,713 Southwark district, PA

By 1860 NYC and Brooklyn were over a million people, while Philadelphia was just over half a million.
NY not only had the erie canal but it was (and is) one of the world's great natural harbors. still, If NY hadn't been successful in making a backroom deal to move the capital to the south and undermine Philadelphia's financial status to weaken Philadelphia and eliminate competition, growth might have been more even. even so, Philadelphians often fall into the trap of thinking, NY surpassed us so the city had become a backwater by the early 19th c, but nothing could be further from the truth. what Philadelphia didn't have in volume (versus NY only) it made up in quality, being on many lists of firsts for civic, scientific, and commercial inventions/ideas. Philadelphia was a world class, even though I hate that term) world city up until the Depression. It's growth was meteoric as well, the country changed and Philadelphia had trouble adapting. NY's ability to stamp out competition in the financial sector has benefitted it immensely over the last 50 years as we've moved to a speculative economy and that old wall st K st deal is still in effect today.

not that any of it matters, size isn't everything. boston is much smaller than Philadelphia but people still love to live there.
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:21 AM
 
Location: back in Philadelphia!
3,254 posts, read 4,736,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
NY not only had the erie canal but it was (and is) one of the world's great natural harbors. still, If NY hadn't been successful in making a backroom deal to move the capital to the south and undermine Philadelphia's financial status to weaken Philadelphia and eliminate competition, growth might have been more even. even so, Philadelphians often fall into the trap of thinking, NY surpassed us so the city had become a backwater by the early 19th c, but nothing could be further from the truth. what Philadelphia didn't have in volume (versus NY only) it made up in quality, being on many lists of firsts for civic, scientific, and commercial inventions/ideas. Philadelphia was a world class, even though I hate that term) world city up until the Depression. It's growth was meteoric as well, the country changed and Philadelphia had trouble adapting. NY's ability to stamp out competition in the financial sector has benefitted it immensely over the last 50 years as we've moved to a speculative economy and that old wall st K st deal is still in effect today.

not that any of it matters, size isn't everything. boston is much smaller than Philadelphia but people still love to live there.
Wait, so...you're saying the reason Washington DC is where it is is because of big bad NYC conspiring against Philly, and not because it made sense in the political climate of the time to move the capital to the geographic center of the country? WDC's location is a concession to the southern states..not to New York City.

And I mean hey, if you're making a backroom deal to stomp out competition why not just make yourself the capital?
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Old 04-18-2014, 06:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taha-nj View Post
I'd actually agree to an extent...Houston is over four times the size of Philadelphia in area. Philly should have annexed towns along the Delaware back when it could.
Urban areas are a census department geography that completely ignores state, city and county boundaries. It just uses an internal logic to create a shape with jagged edges and even non-contiguous areas. As such, it is the fairest ranking of the population and size of urban areas. Even more so than MSA and CMSA which usually respect county boundaries (except in New England).

The big 3 are always the same by any ranking (NY, LA, CHI)

By this urban area ranking #4-#6 are as follows
4 Miami--Ft. Lauderdale--West Palm Beach, FL
5 Philadelphia--Camden, PA—NJ—DE—MD
6 Dallas--Fort Worth--Arlington, TX


By city proper ranking #4-#6 are as follows
4 Houston
5 Philadelphia
6 Phoenix

By combined metropolitan statistical area CMSA ranking #4-#8 are as follows

4 Washington-Baltimore-Arlington, DC-MD-VA-WV-PA
5 San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA
6 Boston-Worcester-Providence, MA-RI-NH-CT
7 Dallas-Fort Worth, TX-OK
8 Philadelphia-Reading-Camden, PA-NJ-DE-MD


By United Nations urban agglomerations ranking
1 Tokyo 36,933,000 Japan Metropolitan area[4] 13,500
2 Delhi NCR 21,935,000 India Urban agglomeration[5] 3,578
3 Mexico City 20,142,000 Mexico Metropolitan area (zona metropolitana) 7,815
4 New York–Newark 20,104,000 United States Urban agglomeration[6] 8,683 [7]
5 São Paulo 19,649,000 Brazil Metropolitan area (região metropolitana) 8,050
6 Shanghai 19,554,000 China Urban agglomeration[8] 3,920
7 Mumbai 19,422,000 India Urban agglomeration 1,097 [9]
8 Dhaka 15,391,000 Bangladesh Metropolitan area (megacity) 1,600
9 Beijing 15,000,000 China Urban agglomeration[8][10] 7,860
10 Kolkata 14,283,000 India Urban agglomeration 1,026 [11]
11 Karachi 13,500,000 Pakistan Urban agglomeration 3,530
12 Buenos Aires 13,370,000 Argentina Urban agglomeration[12] 4,758
13 Los Angeles 13,223,000 United States Metropolitan area[6] 4,320 [7]
14 Rio de Janeiro 11,867,000 Brazil Metropolitan area (região metropolitana) 5,000
15 Metro Manila 11,654,000 Philippines Urban agglomeration[13] 640
16 Moscow 11,472,000 Russia City Proper[14] 1,080
17 Osaka–Kobe 11,430,000 Japan Urban agglomeration[15] 1,220
18 Greater Cairo 11,431,000 Egypt Official metropolitan area[16] 6,640
19 Istanbul 10,953,000 Turkey Urban agglomeration[17] 1,830
20 Lagos 10,788,000 Nigeria Urban agglomeration[18] 640
21 Paris 10,516,000 France Urban agglomeration 2,720
22 Guangzhou 10,486,000 China Urban agglomeration[8] 7,260
23 Shenzhen 10,222,000 China Urban agglomeration[8] 1,950
24 Seoul 9,751,000 South Korea City proper (metropolitan city) 610
25 Chongqing 9,732,000 China Urban agglomeration[8][19] 7,490
26 Jakarta 9,630,000 Indonesia City proper[20] 1,360
27 Chicago 9,545,000 United States Urban agglomeration[6] 5,498 [7]
28 Lima 8,950,000 Peru Metropolitan area[21] 2,810
29 London 8,923,000 United Kingdom Urban agglomeration[22] 1,620
30 Wuhan 8,904,000 China Urban agglomeration[8] 8,490
31 Tianjin 8,535,000 China Urban agglomeration[8][23] 7,130
32 Chennai 8,523,000 India Urban agglomeration 1,180
33 Bogotá 8,502,000 Colombia Urban agglomeration[24] 1,980
34 Kinshasa 8,415,000 Democratic Republic of the Congo City proper 9,960
35 Bengaluru 8,275,000 India Urban agglomeration 1,276
36 Bangkok 8,213,000 Thailand Official metropolitan area 1,570
37 Hyderabad 7,578,000 India Urban agglomeration 1,860
38 Lahore 7,352,000 Pakistan Urban agglomeration 1,770
39 Tehran 7,243,000 Iran City proper 660
40 Dongguan 7,160,000 China City proper[8] 2,460
41 Hong Kong 7,053,000 Hong Kong Urban agglomeration[25] 1,100
42 Madrid 6,405,000 Spain Metropolitan area 1,700
43 Chengdu 6,397,000 China Urban agglomeration[8][26] 2,130
44 Ahmedabad 6,210,000 India Urban agglomeration 1,300
45 Foshan 6,208,000 China Urban agglomeration[8][27]
46 Ho Chi Minh City 6,189,000 Vietnam Urban agglomeration 2,090
47 Miami 5,971,000 United States Urban agglomeration[6] 2,891 [7]
48 Santiago 5,959,000 Chile Urban agglomeration[28] 2,350
49 Baghdad 5,891,000 Iraq Metropolitan area 730
50 Philadelphia 5,841,000 United States Urban agglomeration[6] 4,661 [7]
51 Nanjing 5,665,000 China Urban agglomeration[8][29] 6,600
52 Harbin 5,496,000 China Urban agglomeration[8][30] 4,280
53 Barcelona 5,488,000 Spain Metropolitan area 3,240
54 Toronto 5,485,000 Canada Metropolitan area[31] 5,888
55 Shenyang 5,469,000 China Urban agglomeration[8] 3,460
56 Belo Horizonte 5,407,000 Brazil Metropolitan area (região metropolitana) 9,190
57 Riyadh 5,227,000 Saudi Arabia City proper 1,550
58 Hangzhou 5,189,000 China Urban agglomeration[8][32]
59 Dallas–Fort Worth 5,143,000 United States Urban agglomeration[6] 3,644 [7]
60 Singapore 5,086,000 Singapore Urban agglomeration 690
61 Chittagong 5,069,000 Bangladesh Statistical metropolitan area 990
62 Pune 4,951,000 India Urban agglomeration 700
63 Atlanta 4,875,000 United States Urban agglomeration[6] 5,083 [7]
64 Xi'an 4,846,000 China Urban agglomeration[8][33] 3,550
65 Saint Petersburg 4,842,000 Russia City proper[14] 1,150
66 Luanda 4,790,000 Angola Urban agglomeration
67 Houston 4,785,000 United States Urban agglomeration[6] 3,355 [7]
68 Boston 4,772,000 United States Urban agglomeration[6] 4,497 [7]
69 Washington, D.C. 4,634,000 United States Urban agglomeration[6] 2,996 [7]
70 Khartoum 4,516,000 Sudan Urban agglomeration 580
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Old 04-18-2014, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Philly
9,922 posts, read 14,047,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome View Post
Wait, so...you're saying the reason Washington DC is where it is is because of big bad NYC conspiring against Philly, and not because it made sense in the political climate of the time to move the capital to the geographic center of the country? WDC's location is a concession to the southern states..not to New York City.

And I mean hey, if you're making a backroom deal to stomp out competition why not just make yourself the capital?
umm, no, I'm saying the capital is in Washington DC as a result of a NY sponsored deal. I don't think you understand how deals actually work since you seem to have them confused with, you know, dictating. when you make a deal, you are trading or compromising. making yourself the capitol isn't a deal. you can't call it a "concession" between the money interests in ny or you can call it a deal, whatever makes you feel good, but it's the same thing.
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:10 AM
 
9,866 posts, read 10,118,844 times
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Default Original Post

We should stick to the theme in the original post, or start a new one.

No, it is not possible for Philly to rival Chicago. Even if Philly starts a building spree, it is nearly impossible to imagine an economic scenario that wouldn't have Chicago also building some tall buildings as well.

The third place city has always been wide open with various cities jostling for position since the early 1970's. The list below is for number of buildings over 800'. It includes the following three buildings under construction

Wilshire Grand Tower Los Angeles (US) 1100'
Transbay Tower San Francisco (US) 1070'
181 Fremont San Francisco (US) 802'

4 Philadelphia (US) (including proposed new Comcast building)
3 Los Angeles (US)
3 Atlanta (US)
3 Houston (US)
3 San Francisco (US)
2 Dallas (US)
1 Charlotte (US)
1 Cleveland (US)
1 Oklahoma City (US)
1 Pittsburgh (US)
1 Seattle (US)

With Comcast announcing plans for a 59-story, 1,121-foot tower, (21' taller than the Wilshire Grand Tower) Philly has made a credible start to securing the third place position.


Skyline is not entirely about height however. But I still feel Philly can pass LA.
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Old 04-19-2014, 07:37 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,161,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome View Post
Wait, so...you're saying the reason Washington DC is where it is is because of big bad NYC conspiring against Philly, and not because it made sense in the political climate of the time to move the capital to the geographic center of the country? WDC's location is a concession to the southern states..not to New York City.

And I mean hey, if you're making a backroom deal to stomp out competition why not just make yourself the capital?


Mostly agree - At one point there was serious consideration for placing the capital in NJ just North of Trenton - there is an exit on 95 for Federal City Road - maybe the only remaining remnant of it.

Is hard to imagine the area had a capital existed between NYC and Philly today
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