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Old 08-07-2013, 09:14 PM
 
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I think South Jersey has a different identity from Penn burbs. SJ is flatter (in general). The growth from philly only goes out 20 miles rather than the PA 30+. That is not to say that SJ did not experience the same things in terms of development as PA but often lesser and later (except with malls, highway, and urban deterioration). Southern Portion of SJ like Gloucester, Cumberland, Salem, Inner Atlantic and Inner Cape May feel more southern USA (I explain in detail if someone asks).

SJ burbs lost most of its rail system unlike PA burbs (no SEPTA but NJT buses, Riverline, PATCO, and AC line). The traffic is less and the roads arent as crowded during rush hours.

I feel alot of people who move out of Philly to SJ come from South Philly or Northeast (makes sense). SJ has few regional school districts and are constantly shafted by North Jersey. There are fewer really old pre war nice suburban towns... we do have Haddonfield, Collingswood, and Merchantville. But the PA side has way more of everything. The shore is closer and SJ burbs are more affected by the summer season (traffic and such). All in all fewer people in SJ commute to Philly tha PA burbs or stay in South Jersey. Many people from SJ never go to Penn burbs and probably vice versa. The only things we truely have in common is Philly and the Shore.

BTW each county in SJ has is own stereotype like PA counties based somewhat on reality. I hope that everything i said we can agree on.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:43 AM
 
177 posts, read 356,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinsj View Post
I think South Jersey has a different identity from Penn burbs. SJ is flatter (in general). The growth from philly only goes out 20 miles rather than the PA 30+. That is not to say that SJ did not experience the same things in terms of development as PA but often lesser and later (except with malls, highway, and urban deterioration). Southern Portion of SJ like Gloucester, Cumberland, Salem, Inner Atlantic and Inner Cape May feel more southern USA (I explain in detail if someone asks).

SJ burbs lost most of its rail system unlike PA burbs (no SEPTA but NJT buses, Riverline, PATCO, and AC line). The traffic is less and the roads arent as crowded during rush hours.

I feel alot of people who move out of Philly to SJ come from South Philly or Northeast (makes sense). SJ has few regional school districts and are constantly shafted by North Jersey. There are fewer really old pre war nice suburban towns... we do have Haddonfield, Collingswood, and Merchantville. But the PA side has way more of everything. The shore is closer and SJ burbs are more affected by the summer season (traffic and such). All in all fewer people in SJ commute to Philly tha PA burbs or stay in South Jersey. Many people from SJ never go to Penn burbs and probably vice versa. The only things we truely have in common is Philly and the Shore.

BTW each county in SJ has is own stereotype like PA counties based somewhat on reality. I hope that everything i said we can agree on.
I don't think many people consider the shore points to be "South Jersey" in terms of where we're talking about. Also the PA burbs lost most of their rail, too.

I wouldn't say that less people on the Jersey side commute to Philly than the PA side either. I will agree that the PA side has more pre-war places, of course. I'll also agree that the only thing we really have in common is the Shore and Philly. It just annoys me when places try to claim to be independent that only grow because of the city, have lured companies away from the city, either name everything "Philly" or "Greater Philly" or mention how close to the city they are constantly and run the majority of the ads on local TV and radio/own the radio stations or other media.

I agree with the majority of what you said but it's the few parts I don't agree with that get thrown around constantly by people from those places who then have the nerve to try to call Delaware County more suburban, less independent, etc, when it's the only county that's actually fairly independent and has places that are legitimately independent from the city.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:14 AM
 
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Well SJ is more independent than the Penn burbs because it is in a different state. SJ gets is marching orders from up north. SJ structure is determined by NJ laws not PA laws. SJ has higher property taxes, more municipalities per capita, and alot of other things PA does not have. Lots of People in SJ never go to Penn and think of the area is seperate but part of the larger whole. The only direct freeway connection between most of SJ and Penn is the 42.... there are not that many bridges either. SJ has been moving farther away from the Philadelphia economy for years too. Probably because of our high property taxes and lack of access that Philly people looking for burbs are choosing Penn burbs over SJ burbs.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Montco PA
2,214 posts, read 5,078,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinsj View Post
Well SJ is more independent than the Penn burbs because it is in a different state. SJ gets is marching orders from up north. SJ structure is determined by NJ laws not PA laws. SJ has higher property taxes, more municipalities per capita, and alot of other things PA does not have. Lots of People in SJ never go to Penn and think of the area is seperate but part of the larger whole. The only direct freeway connection between most of SJ and Penn is the 42.... there are not that many bridges either. SJ has been moving farther away from the Philadelphia economy for years too. Probably because of our high property taxes and lack of access that Philly people looking for burbs are choosing Penn burbs over SJ burbs.
You better look out saying this kind of stuff. Frank will be mighty angry.
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:14 PM
 
177 posts, read 356,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinsj View Post
Well SJ is more independent than the Penn burbs because it is in a different state. SJ gets is marching orders from up north. SJ structure is determined by NJ laws not PA laws. SJ has higher property taxes, more municipalities per capita, and alot of other things PA does not have. Lots of People in SJ never go to Penn and think of the area is seperate but part of the larger whole. The only direct freeway connection between most of SJ and Penn is the 42.... there are not that many bridges either. SJ has been moving farther away from the Philadelphia economy for years too. Probably because of our high property taxes and lack of access that Philly people looking for burbs are choosing Penn burbs over SJ burbs.
It really isn't more independent though. Seriously, how many parts of SJ can you honestly say aren't full of people from Philly, don't either work in Philadelphia or at companies that are either only there because of Philadelphia or were lured from Philadelphia, and don't constantly talk about how "close to the city" they are with every business they have? How many can you honestly say don't claim the city when talking to people who don't know where they're from?

There's one legitimately independent county in the metro and that's New Castle in the state of Delaware, and one semi-independent county and that's Delco. Every other county in the metro grows because of Philadelphia and has gotten the vast majority of its people, businesses, and other assets from Philadelphia. For the record, I'm not counting Berks in that, which I don't think would be in the metro or the CSA if Reading wasn't in such a declined state.

I will agree with the last part though.
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Cumberland County, NJ
8,631 posts, read 12,959,988 times
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Originally Posted by s1oozne View Post
It really isn't more independent though. Seriously, how many parts of SJ can you honestly say aren't full of people from Philly, don't either work in Philadelphia or at companies that are either only there because of Philadelphia or were lured from Philadelphia, and don't constantly talk about how "close to the city" they are with every business they have? How many can you honestly say don't claim the city when talking to people who don't know where they're from?

There's one legitimately independent county in the metro and that's New Castle in the state of Delaware, and one semi-independent county and that's Delco. Every other county in the metro grows because of Philadelphia and has gotten the vast majority of its people, businesses, and other assets from Philadelphia. For the record, I'm not counting Berks in that, which I don't think would be in the metro or the CSA if Reading wasn't in such a declined state.

I will agree with the last part though.
Even with Berks County added I don't really see a huge difference between the PA suburban counties. I do agree that New Castle County, DE is sort of independent as Wilmington is the largest city in Delaware. Though some may not agree with this, I actually think Kent County, DE has a lot in common with South Jersey, especially Salem and Cumberland County, NJ.
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:05 PM
 
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Well Atlantic and Cape may are separate from Philly in many respects.... not in DVRPC and have their own economies. I know lots of people in SJ who come from all over the country and are not tied to Philly and who rarely ever go to philly. They come from North Jersey and or other places and work at places like Campbells, Rutgers, Rowan, TD Bank, hospitals, and other places... they go to the shore, North Jersey, and south (no need to cross the Delaware) alot.... I for one came from a family who had no ties to Philly and parents worked somewhere that was not tied to philly. It Happens, get over it.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:46 PM
 
1,953 posts, read 3,868,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1oozne View Post
If you think South Jersey is independent, has its own identity, and doesn't claim Philly then yes, you are delusional.
SUBidentity. SUB. Learn to read. I spend half my time on this board trying to explain to posters from PA who apparently don't live in reality that SJ is a direct outgrowth of Philly. I am agreeing with you. You have very poor comprehension skills.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:58 PM
 
1,953 posts, read 3,868,201 times
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There is of course a lack of general knowledge between the two sides. For example, growing up in the Voorhees-Cherry Hill-Haddonfield etc. bubble, I knew nothing about the PA burbs and thought they were uniformly poor. I didn't know the Main Line existed, but I did know of Cheltenham and figured it was probably relatively well off because so many of my wealthy friends had family there. I didn't know Septa regional rail existed until high school. Of course, looking back now all of that is hilarious. I now know that in total numbers, there is just more to the PA burbs, both in size and wealth. But it's just an example of the separate worlds we sometimes live in.

(For the record, I also thought North Jersey was a dump.... never would I have thought it's one of the richest areas of the country.)
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:58 AM
 
177 posts, read 356,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinsj View Post
Well Atlantic and Cape may are separate from Philly in many respects.... not in DVRPC and have their own economies. I know lots of people in SJ who come from all over the country and are not tied to Philly and who rarely ever go to philly. They come from North Jersey and or other places and work at places like Campbells, Rutgers, Rowan, TD Bank, hospitals, and other places... they go to the shore, North Jersey, and south (no need to cross the Delaware) alot.... I for one came from a family who had no ties to Philly and parents worked somewhere that was not tied to philly. It Happens, get over it.
But Atlantic and Cape May weren't even in the CSA until this past year or something. I still don't consider them a part of the metro. I consider them a separate area from the entire metro, that just happens to get taken over by all of us in the summer haha

I could say the same about many in the PA burbs, probably more than in South Jersey.

Get over the fact that South Jersey isn't more independent than the PA side of the metro and we will be just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soug View Post
SUBidentity. SUB. Learn to read. I spend half my time on this board trying to explain to posters from PA who apparently don't live in reality that SJ is a direct outgrowth of Philly. I am agreeing with you. You have very poor comprehension skills.
My comprehension skills are just fine thanks. We're agreeing to an extent but what we don't agree on, what I don't agree with anybody from South Jersey on, is that South Jersey is more independent of Philadelphia or even on the reverse side that it's more "Philly" than any other county outside of Philadelphia. If you want to say that parts of South Jersey have their own aspects to it that are different from Philadelphia and are directly because of its location and other factors then that is fine but that's the case on the PA side too, especially in Delaware County. I will say though that South Jersey reminds me a hell of a lot of the southern part of Delco (the parts that are along I-95 and are either along the Delaware or close to it), as well as Bucks County.
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