Retail coming to Philadelphia (Penn: disposal, renewal, ferry)

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by cpomp

So it again proved that Philly can handle this type of retail. Even within the past 10 years its impressive what I see on Walnut St nowadays with the huge amounts of people.

I know we are a ways of from Hermes and Prada type, but there are still dozens of higher end offerings that have either opted for just a KoP location of skipped the city altogether, which is frustrating.

Should only get better as all these apartment towers and townhomes eventually fill up over the years.

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by rainrock

They can go take a hike if they dont like it.

I am looking out for the greater good. A new arena has the potential to bring in hundreds of Billions of dollars over time , fills restaurants & bars, hotels and adds electricity and buzz to Center City.

An outlet mall not so much.

Chinatown has consistently been one of the vibrant and interesting and not to mention historic parts of center city, and yet has had seemingly every large scale project to come down the pike in center city over the last 50 years jammed down its throat; cutting off parts of it, obliterating blocks of it, or hemming it in. It's amazing it's managed to keep any character at all, and that's largely due to the efforts of the greater Chinatown community. I think they are justified in resisting yet more big blank-walled eminent domain projects on their doorstep (and beyond). IMO it's for the greater good of Philly to have a healthy and interesting Chinatown.
Downtown stadiums IMO are somewhat overrated, and not a no-brainer urban renewal solution, especially in already vibrant areas. The area immediately around Madison Square Garden, which you referenced, is actually pretty unpleasant, and underutilized for many hours of every day. Not to say an arena wouldn't have economic benefits, but it's just not the best site for it.

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by rotodome

Chinatown has consistently been one of the vibrant and interesting and not to mention historic parts of center city, and yet has had seemingly every large scale project to come down the pike in center city over the last 50 years jammed down its throat; cutting off parts of it, obliterating blocks of it, or hemming it in. It's amazing it's managed to keep any character at all, and that's largely due to the efforts of the greater Chinatown community. I think they are justified in resisting yet more big blank-walled eminent domain projects on their doorstep (and beyond). IMO it's for the greater good of Philly to have a healthy and interesting Chinatown.
Downtown stadiums IMO are somewhat overrated, and not a no-brainer urban renewal solution, especially in already vibrant areas. The area immediately around Madison Square Garden, which you referenced, is actually pretty unpleasant, and underutilized for many hours of every day. Not to say an arena wouldn't have economic benefits, but it's just not the best site for it.

Couldn't agree more. And I certainly don't think they "should go take a hike" if they were to oppose a downtown stadium proposal. I appreciate the Chinatown community personally.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by rotodome

Chinatown has consistently been one of the vibrant and interesting and not to mention historic parts of center city, and yet has had seemingly every large scale project to come down the pike in center city over the last 50 years jammed down its throat; cutting off parts of it, obliterating blocks of it, or hemming it in. It's amazing it's managed to keep any character at all, and that's largely due to the efforts of the greater Chinatown community. I think they are justified in resisting yet more big blank-walled eminent domain projects on their doorstep (and beyond). IMO it's for the greater good of Philly to have a healthy and interesting Chinatown.
Downtown stadiums IMO are somewhat overrated, and not a no-brainer urban renewal solution, especially in already vibrant areas. The area immediately around Madison Square Garden, which you referenced, is actually pretty unpleasant, and underutilized for many hours of every day. Not to say an arena wouldn't have economic benefits, but it's just not the best site for it.

So far, Chinatown has done remarkably well against the powers that be. The Vine St Expressway came, but sinking it was far better than the original concept. If they don't like something they need to be taken into consideration.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by rainrock

They can go take a hike if they dont like it.

I am looking out for the greater good. A new arena has the potential to bring in hundreds of Billions of dollars over time , fills restaurants & bars, hotels and adds electricity and buzz to Center City.

An outlet mall not so much.

I really hate the outlet mall concept, but an arena won't be open 7days a week like the new mall.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by rotodome

Chinatown has consistently been one of the vibrant and interesting and not to mention historic parts of center city, and yet has had seemingly every large scale project to come down the pike in center city over the last 50 years jammed down its throat; cutting off parts of it, obliterating blocks of it, or hemming it in. It's amazing it's managed to keep any character at all, and that's largely due to the efforts of the greater Chinatown community. I think they are justified in resisting yet more big blank-walled eminent domain projects on their doorstep (and beyond). IMO it's for the greater good of Philly to have a healthy and interesting Chinatown.
Downtown stadiums IMO are somewhat overrated, and not a no-brainer urban renewal solution, especially in already vibrant areas. The area immediately around Madison Square Garden, which you referenced, is actually pretty unpleasant, and underutilized for many hours of every day. Not to say an arena wouldn't have economic benefits, but it's just not the best site for it.

Rainrock hates the Italian Market so it should surprise no one that he doesn't like Chinatown and has no respect for the people who live in that historic neighborhood.

The Gallery was one of the things that got jammed down Chinatown's throat.

Yes, the monstrosity of the current Madison Sq Garden which replaced what should still be there: the original Penn Station. Don't most New Yorkers agree today that it should have never been torn down?

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Rainrock hates the Italian Market so it should surprise no one that he doesn't like Chinatown and has no respect for the people who live in that historic neighborhood.

The Gallery was one of the things that got jammed down Chinatown's throat.

Yes, the monstrosity of the current Madison Sq Garden which replaced what should still be there: the original Penn Station. Don't most New Yorkers agree today that it should have never been torn down?

People everywhere were so immediately horrified by the destruction of Penn station (which was NOT an act of planning, but an act of dollars and cents minded corporate management) that it caused the creation of the Landmarks Preservation Commission in NYC the very next year, sparked the modern day historical preservation movement in the USA, and is the main reason why Grand Central survived.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by rotodome

I think they(chinatowners) are justified in resisting yet more big blank-walled eminent domain projects on their doorstep

Why would an indoor arena near Chinatown have to be a big blank walled project? Amazing things are happening architecturally these days. This could be a world class multi use project involving retail,residential, arena and other entertainment venues like a smaller theater. To appease Chinatown add a couple hundred low income apartments, donate $10 M over the next 20 years to a new community center.

Originally Posted by rotodome

Downtown stadiums IMO are somewhat overrated, and not a no-brainer urban renewal solution, especially in already vibrant areas.

This wouldnt really be about urban renewal, more like logic of bringing the masses to the commerce. Close to 10 M people patronize the stadium district in south philly. Other than the cheezy xfinity live shackbox there is nothing else down there.People have nowhere to go, you may as well be in Wichita.

An indoor arena for Flyers/Sixers/Concerts/Disney on Ice etc brings in about 5 M people and those people should be within walking distance of the 3,000 restaurants, bars, shops of Center City. That added vibrancy then makes Center City all the more appealing resulting in even further investment to Center City.

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by rainrock

Why would an indoor arena near Chinatown have to be a big blank walled project? Amazing things are happening architecturally these days.

Such as? (don't say Barclay Center)

This could be a world class multi use project involving retail,residential, arena and other entertainment venues like a smaller theater. To appease Chinatown add a couple hundred low income apartments, donate $10 M over the next 20 years to a new community center.

So..force it down their throat with candy and shiny objects? Like the 'beautiful public artwork' and 'pedestrian gallery' that adorns the cavelike tunnel that used to be 12th street? The part of my post you didn't quote, describing WHY I think it's justified, was important context.

This wouldn't really be about urban renewal, more like logic of bringing the masses to the commerce. Close to 10 M people patronize the stadium district in south philly. Other than the cheezy xfinity live shackbox there is nothing else down there.People have nowhere to go, you may as well be in Wichita.

An indoor arena for Flyers/Sixers/Concerts/Disney on Ice etc brings in about 5 M people and those people should be within walking distance of the 3,000 restaurants, bars, shops of Center City. That added vibrancy then makes Center City all the more appealing resulting in even further investment to Center City.

And I'm sure there would be a fabulous parking podium integrated into the amazing arena architecture. (for all the game-goers who currently don't think that the super-easy transit access to the stadium complex is easy enough.)

Like I said, I don't think the idea of a downtown stadium is completely without merit. I just don't think it's the right site. And I didn't think so years back when the idea was floated for a new Phillies stadium a few blocks away plopped on top of Chinatown and some now-desirable lofts, either.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by rotodome

People everywhere were so immediately horrified by the destruction of Penn station (which was NOT an act of planning, but an act of dollars and cents minded corporate management) that it caused the creation of the Landmarks Preservation Commission in NYC the very next year, sparked the modern day historical preservation movement in the USA, and is the main reason why Grand Central survived.

Yes, I do know something about those details. I actually remember the old Penn Station. Can anyone even think of Granc Central not being there? I love everything about that station.