Retail coming to Philadelphia (Harrisburg, King of Prussia: real estate market, cheaply, file)

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Just to remind you all:

The space in the Shops at the Bellevue that now houses Williams-Sonoma used to house Gucci.

Burberry was once in the 1700 block of Walnut, even more recently than Gucci.

Cole Haan set up shop within the past 2 years, and Allen Edmonds joined them last year on Chestnut.

There is an art supply house in the 1300 block of Chestnut: Blick is tucked under West Elm and Lucky Strike Lanes. AC Moore will attract a hobbyist crowd in addition to the art students.

kyb01: Something I learned writing for the website (and that many of us on the editorial staff, including the former editor, are aware of) is that the magazine and website are almost like two different publications, both in the mix of content and in the demographics of the readership. It was the former editor's goal to make the two more one. I think the interim editor shares that goal. Which one it becomes is once again an open question, though.

LOL, the only shop at the Bellevue Stratford aka the Bellevue that I ever remember advertising to locals in the Inquirer was Madame Wellington.

I'm assuming that Blick is connected to Dick Blick, which has been a mail order art supply company that specializes in selling supplies to public schools, practically forever. The company is in Illinois.

AC Moore not only will serve hobbyists, art students, residents (both adults & children), it's local.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Have you shopped at AC Moore? They can provide a lot of the supplies that art students need. Not all classes are fine arts. They can provide paints & certain other supplies for fine arts classes. They won't replace a trip to jewelers row for jewelry majors. It will be a godsend to families in & near Center City.

I'll take your word for it as something positive. At least that huge space will be filled. It's a bit of an eyesore right now.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

See thats you putting words in my mouth. My point which seems to have gone over everyones head except Karen is that the AC Moore location, Wawa, Walgreens, etc are extremely prime retail spots, there aren't many of those in Center City, so the hopes of higher end/huge national brands are slim when a spot like that is wasted IMO.

Also, as I said before I don't think there has to be a just a Burberry and Gucci store, Philadelphia is missing so many basic retailers that other major American cities and our burbs have access too.

Today for example, I went to Bed Bath & Beyond, Home Goods, and the Container Store in Manhattan, and there was a Lowes across the street and a non ghetto movie theater, Toys R US and 2 William Sonomas, 2 Trader Joes all near each other. Philadelphia does not have that and people applaud a Wawa and an AC Moore at Broad and Walnut because "at least its something". That mentality needs to go. An AC Moore can open in any old spot same with a Walgreens and Wawa.

Now the New Whole Foods that opened is fantastic and that is what Philadelphia should be aiming for, which doensn't happen as often as it should.

Aren't some of those stores supposed to be part of the East Market project at 11th and Market?

Evidently you and I are the only two posters who believe we are wasting opportunies on those high profile corners. The lingering low brow attitude we still have in this town is really frustrating for me.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

I'm not putting words in your mouth, you are.

AC Moore is a basic. People with kids will be thrilled. The store will be full of art students & city residents. Bed bath & beyond is no more of a basic than AC Moore.

Whose going to get more local foot traffic, AC Moore or Gucci? AC Moore, hands down.

You're missing the point entirely. It's not only about foot traffic. It's about having something with class, style and grandeur on that corner. Once again it's about the low expectations we still suffer from in Philadelphia.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by kyb01

I'll take your word for it as something positive. At least that huge space will be filled. It's a bit of an eyesore right now.

It's a very good thing. They have stock for professionals & hobbyists at good prices. they do birthday parties for kids & have classes. I've shopped at AC Moore since store number 1 was in the original location - the Moorestown Mall.

If AC Moore had existed when I was an art student it would have made my life so much easier.

Can you imagine how many inner city families with kids will be thrilled to not have to make a trek to the suburbs or South Philly to go to a craft store?

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by kyb01

You're missing the point entirely. It's not only about foot traffic. It's about having something with class, style and grandeur on that corner. Once again it's about the low expectations we still suffer from in Philadelphia.

You're missing the point that class, style, & grandeur wasn't interested. AC Moore was. The space will be filled while AC Moore builds enough clientele to open 2 or 3 stores in the Center City area & probably a store in University City as well. When they spread out, that will be a plus for the city & AC Moore. The Broad & Walnut location will be available for grandeur.

Plus, AC Moore will probably hire art students & when they graduate, they might get jobs at the headquarters or the parent company, right across the river.

This is something with great appeal to a wide spectrum of people.

The rent will go up & AC Moore will move & multiply.

While you did say that people who like the AC Moore idea are lowbrow, you didn't answer my question of whether you'd ever been in an AC Moore. My guess is no.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by southbound_295;45855732[B

]You're missing the point that class, style, & grandeur wasn't interested.[/b] AC Moore was. The space will be filled while AC Moore builds enough clientele to open 2 or 3 stores in the Center City area & probably a store in University City as well. When they spread out, that will be a plus for the city & AC Moore. The Broad & Walnut location will be available for grandeur.

Plus, AC Moore will probably hire art students & when they graduate, they might get jobs at the headquarters or the parent company, right across the river.

This is something with great appeal to a wide spectrum of people.

The rent will go up & AC Moore will move & multiply.

While you did say that people who like the AC Moore idea are lowbrow, you didn't answer my question of whether you'd ever been in an AC Moore. My guess is no.

Which is disappointing that NYC, KoP, Boston, DC etc. will/would get an A+ retailer in that prime space, but Philadelphia continues to get average. And there are a number of reasons why that is still happening.

Originally Posted by kyb01

Aren't some of those stores supposed to be part of the East Market project at 11th and Market?

Evidently you and I are the only two posters who believe we are wasting opportunies on those high profile corners. The lingering low brow attitude we still have in this town is really frustrating for me.

There were rumors of a Best Buy and Bed Bath & Beyond, but that was a few years ago.. we will see. Design Within Reach is coming which is a good one. I personally think the Gallery should have been torn down, rebuilt and taken that route instead of the outlet idea, then leave Chestnut, Walnut, and Broad for the mid to high end retailers.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Which is disappointing that NYC, KoP, Boston, DC etc. will/would get an A+ retailer in that prime space, but Philadelphia continues to get average. And there are a number of reasons why that is still happening.

The space will be filled with a good local retailer. When it comes open again the retail situation will be better & something upscale will probably go in there.

Would you prefer that the spot stay empty? AC Moore is not a crappy store. It could have been Dollar General, you know. That would be a reason to bemoan the rental.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

I think that AC Moore will eventually have 2 or 3 Center City locations, none of which will be at Broad & Walnut.

The previous owner almost sank the chain. The current owner has been rehabbing the chain. The owner of the building wanted something in that building & no high end company wanted it. They offered a good enough price that AC Moore took it.

When the lease is up for renegotiation the rent will be up because AC Moore will have been super successful. At that point, they will probably look for 2 locations, one in proximity to the University of the Arts, Society Hill, Queens Village, etc., & one in proximity to to Moore, Fairmount, etc. At a later point, they will probably find a 3rd location with proximity to Market East.

Just because AC Moore is going in there now doesn't mean that it will be there forever. It's a step for AC Moore & a place holder for the building owner. It's a very good thing for the chain, the building owner, the art students, & the residents. If you don't see that, I'm sorry for you.

You don't live here now so, actually, you're guessing about how it will turn out for them.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

You're missing the point that class, style, & grandeur wasn't interested. AC Moore was. The space will be filled while AC Moore builds enough clientele to open 2 or 3 stores in the Center City area & probably a store in University City as well. When they spread out, that will be a plus for the city & AC Moore. The Broad & Walnut location will be available for grandeur.

Plus, AC Moore will probably hire art students & when they graduate, they might get jobs at the headquarters or the parent company, right across the river.

This is something with great appeal to a wide spectrum of people.

The rent will go up & AC Moore will move & multiply.

While you did say that people who like the AC Moore idea are lowbrow, you didn't answer my question of whether you'd ever been in an AC Moore. My guess is no.

If it helps the arts community, fine. It's just disappointing to me and you don't seem to understand why it does.