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You didn't answer my question. If half of the housing in Philly burned down (and then all new construction was banned), would it become as expensive as SF?
it depends. Are the employers in Philadelphia 'footloose' - able to relocate easily due to an increase in labor costs? Or are there location advantages that tie them to Philly? If the former, than no, housing prices would NOT increase - as rents began to rise, equilibrium wages would increase, and employers would flee. If the latter, I would expect housing prices for remaining housing to increase, yes.
Are you suggesting that local demand for labor is perfectly elastic? That even a small increase in prevailing local wages will cause all (non local market serving) employers to depart or fail?
Only that "one percent" you're referring to is largely concentrated in a few metro areas in the country. And they constitute more than one percent of the population in those metros. In the DC metro, 43 percent of households earn in excess of $100,000. What you have in America is a lot of wealth concentrated in a few cities on the Coasts. And yes, that drives the COL up in those cities. Manhattan would not be super-expensive if it contained nothing but Dominican immigrants. It's the bankers and lawyers that drive up the prices.
And yes, I went to a pretty good high school (Go Lancers!). And a pretty good college, too.
Ok Bajan... lets use your logic then
It's funny that you are claiming millionares dictate real estate prices IN AN ENTIRE METRO AREA...
So according to you... Boston has a high concentration of Wealth but Philadelphia doesn't? Silicon Valley (San Jose) has a high concentration of wealth, but Philadelphia doesn't... huh... thats funny.
For instance... here is the list of cities with the highest concentration of millionaires as of SUMMER 2011.
1. NYC
2. Los Angeles
3. Chicago
4. Washington D.C.
5. San Francisco
6. Philadelphia
7. Boston
8. Houston
9. Detroit
10. San Jose
Using your logic, if wealth dictates the cost of an area, why is San Francisco more expensive than EVERY city when Los Angeles, Chicago and DC all have more millionaires?
Why is DC more expensive than Chicago?
Why is Boston more expensive than Philadelphia when Philadelphia has more millionaires?
Why is San Jose so expensive when Philadelphia has more millionaires?
Why is Houston so cheap when it has the 8th most millionaires in the country?
Why is Detroit so cheap if it has the 9th most millionaires in the country?
YOU ARE NOT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION ALL OF THE FACTORS THAT DICTATE THE COL IN AN AREA.
Your point doesn't make sense. You are saying that these places are more expensive because they have more wealth and a more high skilled labor force... but how do you dictate the average job and the average joe making more money in one area over another AT THE SAME JOB.
Millionaires and high wealth dictate real estate prices in CERTAIN LOCATIONS like the Upper East Side, or the Back Bay, or Rittenhouse square... but that doesn't affect real estate prices in the entire metro.
So by your logic there are no poor people in NYC, DC, Boston or SF? EVERYONE who lives in these cities makes more than anyone in Philadelphia?
I don't understand your logic... it makes no sense.
You seem to let your obsession with status and wealth overshadow common sense.
Take a real estate class... and you will instantly understand why you are SO wrong.
Real estate is determined by demand, supply, location and wealth. There are so many individual factors contributing to the cost of real estate, and it is not limited to and cannot be explained by one thing. While wealth has an effect on an area, it does not affect an ENTIRE METRO AREA. That's just ridiculous.
Those cities have the cutting edge work (that's not present in Philadelphia) that attracts the top talent in the nation, if not the world. Clients of NYC law, accounting and financial firms are often the biggest most lucrative companies on the planet and they're willing to pay a higher premium to have the best services. Therefore, people working at those firms get paid more.
...
Dechert and Morgan are national firms with offices in different countries.
...
I think you're getting a little too emotional about the subject with someone who was actually born and raised in Philly and attended its public schools. LOL. And no, Wilmington is not considered part of the Philadelphia legal market.
I don't want to belabor this stuff, but I am going to make a few points:
1. This whole topic is largely irrelevant to the discussion of cost of living. Personal injury and insurance defense law firms are just as relevant to this conversation as are the elite firms.
2. You keep talking about the very cream of the crop of NYC firms. We are not talking about Wachtell and Cravath. This is a discussion about Philly vs. Boston cost of living! (Or I presume it is, am I wrong?)
3. I don't know what "cutting edge" legal work is, but it certainly is a small part of legal work at even the top firms. 99% of the work these firms do is not cutting edge. We are not talking about firms full of Supreme Court appellate litigators here. Anyway, I still don't understand why employment would be excluded from cutting edge.
4. I don't think it is relevant that you are from Philly. Your attitude reminds me a lot of people I went to school with and worked with. I find it a little sad, but I'm not butt hurt because I am out of that world now. You are on a Philadelphia-centric board, you should expect some flak.
5. I have no idea what your definition of a national firm vis a vis an international one, but Dechert and Morgan both have substantial international presences (i.e. a sizable percentage of their lawyers work elsewhere). Some of their international offices are "service" offices with a few attorneys, but not all. And some of their international offices have been open for many years and their partners are bringing in substantial amounts of business on their own.
6. Wilmington is relevant because I thought we were talking about the Philadelphia area cost of living. I understand they are perceived as separate markets.
7. I will agree that Ropes & Gray and WilmerHale have marginally better reputations than Dechert and Morgan. And I think you are probably right that Boston has a slightly better reputation as a legal market (nationally). I don't know if that reputation really represents reality though. And anyway, it is not all that relevant - revenue of their local offices is much more so.
It's funny that you are claiming millionares dictate real estate prices IN AN ENTIRE METRO AREA...
So according to you... Boston has a high concentration of Wealth but Philadelphia doesn't? Silicon Valley (San Jose) has a high concentration of wealth, but Philadelphia doesn't... huh... thats funny.
For instance... here is the list of cities with the highest concentration of millionaires as of SUMMER 2011.
1. NYC
2. Los Angeles
3. Chicago
4. Washington D.C.
5. San Francisco
6. Philadelphia
7. Boston
8. Houston
9. Detroit
10. San Jose
Using your logic, if wealth dictates the cost of an area, why is San Francisco more expensive than EVERY city when Los Angeles, Chicago and DC all have more millionaires?
Why is DC more expensive than Chicago?
Why is Boston more expensive than Philadelphia when Philadelphia has more millionaires?
Why is San Jose so expensive when Philadelphia has more millionaires?
Why is Houston so cheap when it has the 8th most millionaires in the country?
Why is Detroit so cheap if it has the 9th most millionaires in the country?
YOU ARE NOT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION ALL OF THE FACTORS THAT DICTATE THE COL IN AN AREA.
Your point doesn't make sense. You are saying that these places are more expensive because they have more wealth and a more high skilled labor force... but how do you dictate the average job and the average joe making more money in one area over another AT THE SAME JOB.
Millionaires and high wealth dictate real estate prices in CERTAIN LOCATIONS like the Upper East Side, or the Back Bay, or Rittenhouse square... but that doesn't affect real estate prices in the entire metro.
So by your logic there are no poor people in NYC, DC, Boston or SF? EVERYONE who lives in these cities makes more than anyone in Philadelphia?
I don't understand your logic... it makes no sense.
You seem to let your obsession with status and wealth overshadow common sense.
Take a real estate class... and you will instantly understand why you are SO wrong.
Real estate is determined by demand, supply, location and wealth. There are so many individual factors contributing to the cost of real estate, and it is not limited to and cannot be explained by one thing. While wealth has an effect on an area, it does not affect an ENTIRE METRO AREA. That's just ridiculous.
werd, by dat logic, since dc has the most amount of wealth and incomes, it should be the most expensive or at least rite after nyc, but its not, its only after san fran/san jose, honolulu and orange county
by dat stupid logic, houston and chicago should be more expensive than seattle that has less wealth, but seattle is more expensive still, bajan dont kno a thing bout real estate apparently, thats why he ignorin all the other factors that affect COL besides the rich people, at the same time sayin philly aint nothing with his traitor snob attitude
who cares bout the damn elite law firms and 1% bonuses, i kno i dont, like wtf, this thread is bout an overall lower philly COL, which is fact for regular people, forget the elite
thas like sayin moscow has the most billionaires so the high COL is justified cuz its common to get a 6 fig salary lol
he must be jokin
I don't want to belabor this stuff, but I am going to make a few points
Too late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scosm
This whole topic is largely irrelevant to the discussion of cost of living.
Income, education, industry and the talent of the labor pool are irrelvant to a discussion about cost of living?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scosm
Personal injury and insurance defense law firms are just as relevant to this conversation as are the elite firms.
Do you even understand what I'm saying? NYC's professionals are commanding absolute top dollar and there are more of them. It's like comparing the English Premier League to Major League Soccer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scosm
You keep talking about the very cream of the crop of NYC firms. We are not talking about Wachtell and Cravath. This is a discussion about Philly vs. Boston cost of living! (Or I presume it is, am I wrong?)
What part of more professionals...
getting paid more money...
is so hard to comprehend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scosm
I don't know what "cutting edge" legal work is, but it certainly is a small part of legal work at even the top firms. 99% of the work these firms do is not cutting edge. We are not talking about firms full of Supreme Court appellate litigators here. Anyway, I still don't understand why employment would be excluded from cutting edge.
"Cutting edge" work are the cases you read about on the front of the New York Times and Wall Street Journal. Or doing work for firms like Oracle that come to you with complex intellectual property issues. Or working at boutiques that do very specialized work in securities. And employment law is not "cutting edge" because the issues are run of the mill and legal work has shifted away from litigation (most cases settle). There's no firm doing primarily L&E that could ever charge what Wachtell does because a lot of firms can do L&E.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scosm
I don't think it is relevant that you are from Philly. Your attitude reminds me a lot of people I went to school with and worked with. I find it a little sad, but I'm not butt hurt because I am out of that world now. You are on a Philadelphia-centric board, you should expect some flak.
Flak for saying something that's completely non-controversial outside of C-D?
Ok, FWIW, this is my experience:
I am a professional who moved from Philly to NYC.
I am not in a field where one typically gets big bonuses to offset one's salary. I did not move here to work in finance, or some other blatant moneymaker profession. Those are not my priorities. I do a version of the same job I did in Philly.
When I first moved (in 2005), my salary went up by a 20%, and my rent went up by 27%. After I moved out of my "landing pad" apt (it's hard to find good deals when you're relocating from another state), my rent was/is 12% higher than my Philly rent. In Philly I lived in a 1300sf 2BR 2Bath rowhouse with a yard & basement. Now I live in a 1200sf 2BR 2bath apartment with a yard & basement. All in all, pretty comparable.*
Sooo, for me, no huge overblown salary discrepancy, but also no huge overblown COL increase.
*But I rent. Where it gets to be NOT comparable is if you want to BUY real estate. Buying NYC real estate is bonkers expensive.
yo situation is not typical, i don kno wer u found dat housing, but only 12% higher sounds unrealistic for most people, nice philly apts cost like $1200, same ones in nyc-2k+
the conclusion ive come to is philly salaries for average people can be 10% less compared to nyc
COL tho is 40% less, in other words 100k salary in nyc=60k in philly
and as was mentioned, buyin is another issue, property taxes in north jers can be 20-30k easy so even if ur finally able to afford a home and seems like it mite get a lil easier, they still bury ya wit taxes
"Cutting edge" work are the cases you read about on the front of the New York Times and Wall Street Journal. Or doing work for firms like Oracle that come to you with complex intellectual property issues. Or working at boutiques that do very specialized work in securities. And employment law is not "cutting edge" because the issues are run of the mill and legal work has shifted away from litigation (most cases settle). There's no firm doing primarily L&E that could ever charge what Wachtell does because a lot of firms can do L&E.
Flak for saying something that's completely non-controversial outside of C-D?
Is that not "cutting edge" enough for you? Or does it not count for you because it did not occur in one of your "prestigious, wealthy, high status" cities.?
Sorry, but that is more cutting edge than the top lawyer suing someone else for a boat load of cash.
Is that not "cutting edge" enough for you? Or does it not count for you because it did not occur in one of your "prestigious, wealthy, high status" cities.?
Sorry, but that is more cutting edge than the top lawyer suing someone else for a boat load of cash.
I dont know if it is related, but there was a story of a cancer patient (child) who was treated with treatment similar to HIV at a Philadelphia hospital. That is cutting edge. Not sure how much of it is Philadelphia related, but still.
I dont know if it is related, but there was a story of a cancer patient (child) who was treated with treatment similar to HIV at a Philadelphia hospital. That is cutting edge. Not sure how much of it is Philadelphia related, but still.
This is not "cutting edge" by Bajan's standards though because it is not being created in one of his "elite, wealthy, status" cities of Boston, NYC, DC or SF and it is not a lawyer suing someone for millions or a techie creating the new app that can tell you when your TV show is on... also, according to him, these doctors, surgeons, researches and scientists are making a nickel a month and live in a favela.
yo situation is not typical, i don kno wer u found dat housing, but only 12% higher sounds unrealistic for most people, nice philly apts cost like $1200, same ones in nyc-2k+
the conclusion ive come to is philly salaries for average people can be 10% less compared to nyc
COL tho is 40% less, in other words 100k salary in nyc=60k in philly
and as was mentioned, buyin is another issue, property taxes in north jers can be 20-30k easy so even if ur finally able to afford a home and seems like it mite get a lil easier, they still bury ya wit taxes
It's great that in our lives we can all have our own personal experiences and draw our own conclusions from them, isn't it?
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