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So your making your city better by living here and being a tax paying citizen. Your paying less than what you should, and much less than the suburbs, and now the the city wants to raise taxes to WHAT THEY SHOULD BE in order to get more money (because they are cash strapped as it is, to say the least), and you just want to pack up and leave? Like you wouldn't have been paying more in the suburbs all this time anyways?
Why don't you wait to see what your taxes will actually be, before just assuming what they will be. Because, as far as I know, the city has not released anything.
Also, the city will be receiving nearly $100 billion from these tax increases. $100 Billion. That's a lot more money to do a lot more things that they couldn't do before.
No offense but you seem to be speaking as someone who is not a home owner. It's really easy to tell other people to suck it up and pay the piper when you're not paying any property taxes at all.
Sure people like Clark Park may be paying property taxes that are far below what would be equitable for their home value, but I still think you're being quite harsh in your hardline stance. Keep in mind it's people like Clark and others posting here who bought homes in previously rough neighborhoods and worked hard to turn them around. I know a lot of philly home owners who have put in a lot of sweat equity to make their neighborhoods desirable to live in... now because of their hard work they're now facing enormous tax increases.
Whether they are justified increases or not, they are still enormous increases, increases that likely were not anticipated when they purchased their home and are not coming at a good time with the economy the way it is. Plus as others have said, while property taxes in the city are very low, that is sort of balanced out by higher wage and sales taxes and city services that are often not on par with the suburbs especially when it comes to education.
Bashing people who say they will leave if the taxes are raised is kind of an odd position to take. You aren't these people's accountant, you have no idea what their budget can bear. The sad fact is these tax increases will like force some people to move. You can believe the increases are necessary, but that doesn't mean people can't be worried and upset about them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001
In the suburbs you pay much higher property tax but you don't have the high wage tax and you usually get free and decent public schools. As long as Philly isn't providing the schools and is charging the wage tax it isn't fair to raise the property tax. You can't have your cake and eat it to. In the long run it will depress property values on the high end and lead to abandonment at the low end which is counter productive to the city's future. It would be better to cut services to the poor and encourage them to move someplace else.
Unfortunately the fact is you can't improve the city's schools or lower the wage tax without first bringing in money from somewhere else, thus the property tax increases. I understand why people are fearful that they'll end up paying more money and the city government will bungle things so that in the end wage taxes don't go down and the schools don't improve... but this is the position we find ourselves in. Philly has improved by leaps and bounds in recent years but as people continually say, the schools need to get better. There's no way that happens without property taxes at least beginning to rise to actual value.
I don't really know how you can cut services to the poor any more than they already are, putting aside the fact that I am morally opposed to this strategy of "forcing the poor out" I just don't think it will work.
I am as we speak house hunting for my first home and the uncertainty surrounding the property taxes is making the task considerably more stressful than it would be normally and I very much empathize with those worried about them. But at the same time I do see Summers position as well... the property taxes in the city need to go up, particularly in parts of the city that have vastly improved.
I just hope that the increase in property taxes can be rolled out in a gradual and efficient manor. The taxes need to rise, but the city does not benefit if it forces people like Clark and Bryson out of the city. Finding an appropriate balance is key hopefully our city government is up to the task. As much as Philly has changed for the good, I'm still not very confident in our government which still looks often like unabashed disaster, but hopefully even that can start to improve... making smart decisions as far as how much to raise the property taxes, how quickly and to whom will be key decisions that will have a huge impact on Philly's future. I hope they do a good job.
A big part of the problem as I see it is the amount they are raising taxes in one go.
I agree taxes need to go up, but one of my friends had the taxes on a rental property raised from $800 to $5000. I think if a property ought to have $5000 in taxes then they could at least advise the owners and increase them slowly over years, not all at once.
I bought my house about 11 1/2 years ago. I paid about $180,000. It is a 1890's "Twin" (semi-detached townhouse) in the Spruce Hill neighborhood of Clark Park. My taxes have gone up from $1,400 at first to $1,850 per year.
You can already go online and get an estimate of your taxes . . . I'm not jumping the gun. I'm definitely going to wait to see what happens. My taxes have gone up every year that I've been here and I'll wait to see what happens. When they go up and the wage tax doesn't come down (because it's not going to) I'll rent my house and wait to see what happens. If things don't moderate in a few years I'll sell.
That sounds like an intelligent plan. It's an option I might have to consider.
... In reality, a lot of people are going to see their property taxes 300-500% and wage taxes are going to go down by 0.1%.
YIKES! That's the nightmare scenario I been worried about.
Two questions:
1. Where do you go online to estimate your taxes? (I already filed for homestead exemption).
2. Do you suppose there will be some relief for Senior Citizens? In my case, 60 is looming on the horizen and I'm planning on retiring in about 3 years.
2. Do you suppose there will be some relief for Senior Citizens? In my case, 60 is looming on the horizen and I'm planning on retiring in about 3 years.
I would imagine so . . . and that's the benefit of pegging the taxes to inflation and only reassessing properties when they sell on the open market. Seniors who planned to stay put don't get burned.
I dispute that property taxes need to go up. We've got the 4th highest overall tax burden in the US. Enough. I'm sorry to sound like a crazed tea partier, but this is ridiculous.
My property taxes will remain the same according to that AVI estimate site oddly enough (depending on how they decide the values of homes), about $500 for a 1000 square foot rowhome with the $30,000 homestead exemption. One of the benefits of living in a non-trendy neighborhood I guess.
But I agree with Mancat in that the city needs to go after the delinquents first. Why punish those that already pay when there are evaders still out there? The tax burden in Philly is already too much. Comcast pays no property taxes yet people that are choosing to live and invest in the city get huge tax increases? Makes no sense.
I bought my house about 11 1/2 years ago. I paid about $180,000. It is a 1890's "Twin" (semi-detached townhouse) in the Spruce Hill neighborhood of Clark Park. My taxes have gone up from $1,400 at first to $1,850 per year.
Hold on. Allow me to get the tissue out for you to cry on $1850 a year lunch money.. Shat up and pay up.. You are still paying peanuts
I dispute that property taxes need to go up. We've got the 4th highest overall tax burden in the US. Enough. I'm sorry to sound like a crazed tea partier, but this is ridiculous.
If implemented properly the AVI along with it's subsequent cuts to wage and business taxes will result in a net decrease in the overall tax burdens for Philadelphians. Or at least that's the plan. This is of course factoring in more jobs and higher wages coming to the city, increasing the tax base, etc. None of this will happen instantaneously or probably even this decade, so this is cold comfort to most, but it's a necessary step for the long term health of our economy.
You are right that Philadelphians pay a lot of taxes but we sure don't pay much in property taxes. Having such an off kilter tax revenue system hurts Philadelphia in being competitive in luring jobs and qualified and highly skilled workers to Philadelphia.
Plus while AVI is going to raise taxes on a lot of Philadelphians t won't for all. I find it sort of funny that some of the most vocal detractors of AVI are the few philly republicans in northeast philly, a place where not only will the AVI not really have much of an affect, but if it does it will likely actually be driving taxes down. The system as is, is just totally off kilter.
Right now the average property tax burden is apparently higher in the 19135 zip code than the 19146 zip code. 19135 is Tacony and 19146 is Graduate Hospital and parts of rittenhouse and point breeze. I mean honestly, does that make any sense to anyone? Sure there are some dumpy homes in point breeze, but there are also multimillion homes in that zip code... something that assuredly is not the case in Tacony.
The property tax system desperately needs to be fixed and for many home owners in the revitalized core of Philadelphia that means paying higher taxes. I'm sorry but no one in Bella Vista should be paying a couple hundred dollars in property taxes. Some of these homes are selling for half a million dollars. That is absurd.
The key though is to do this properly. Homes need to be assessed properly and the the raises have to be gradual and they need to have systems in place that ensure that people who have been living in their homes for years are not forced out due to increases in the property taxes. But this needs to happen. The system is beyond broken, we need to at least attempt to fix it. I just hope it is done right...
Also to all those who are saying the city should collect back taxes before raising them on those who already pay taxes, this simply isn't possible. I don't get it. Do people not think that Philly wants to collect these taxes? Do people really think the city would rather tax it's hard working core and let the scofflaws get a free ride? The city does just about everything in it's power to collect, they simply don't have many tools at their disposal. I applaud Nutter for some outside the box thinking here, holding press conferences in front of delinquent tax payers homes and businesses demanding they pay as well as publicly distributing the names of those with back taxes.
But honestly aside from Nutter's attempt to publicly shame people into paying their taxes there's not much else at his disposal. I mean they can add some fines for late payment and they can have a Sheriff sale but neither tactic is all that effective. Adding more money to a tax bill that someone doesn't intend to pay does nothing and a sheriff's sale in many case does nothing as well. Sheriff's sales are long and costly processes that the city can only use in rare instances and even when used rarely end up netting anywhere close to what is owed when all the costs that went into having the sale are factored in. If you want to force people with back taxes to collect, the laws need to be changed so that the city can enact harsher punishments.
The bottom line though is that whether or not the city is successful in collecting back taxes or not, these tax adjustments still desperately need to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87
Hold on. Allow me to get the tissue out for you to cry on $1850 a year lunch money.. Shat up and pay up.. You are still paying peanuts
Again though, just because they need to happen, doesn't mean that people can't be concerned or advocate for their interests. Unless you're Clark's accountant you really don't have any idea what his finances are and what other tax burdens he is being forced to bear and so telling people to shut up and pay up is well... stupid.
Sure people like Clark Park may be paying property taxes that are far below what would be equitable for their home value, but I still think you're being quite harsh in your hardline stance. Keep in mind it's people like Clark and others posting here who bought homes in previously rough neighborhoods and worked hard to turn them around. I know a lot of philly home owners who have put in a lot of sweat equity to make their neighborhoods desirable to live in... now because of their hard work they're now facing enormous tax increases.
Whether they are justified increases or not, they are still enormous increases, increases that likely were not anticipated when they purchased their home and are not coming at a good time with the economy the way it is ...
In 2000 my neighborhood was still a bit rough around the edges. I had an idea that the neighborhood was improving, but I didn't anticipate Spruce Hill becoming as pricy or 'gentrified' as it has become.
When I moved into my house, there were still bars on the windows.
I have put many thousands of dollars, within the confines of my rather modest budget, in restoring the house to it's original Victorian roots. Houses like mine have chopped up into 3, 4, and 5 unit apartments; all of the original features were stripped of these places that now serve as student housing. Mine is one of very few in the neighborhood that is still a single family house with all the original stained glass windows, pocket doors, fireplaces, moldings, etc.
I became active in the Spruce Hill Neighborhood Association, Friends of Clark Park, University City District, and for the past few years I was elected to the Board of Governors of the University City Historical Society.
So much of my identity is now tied both to my house and neighborhood, and to Philadelphia. I want to stay where I am. I have an emotional investment. I love this city ... only as someone who was not born nor raised here but moved here out of choice - can (and I told Mayor Nutter those very words when I first met him!)
My greatest fear is that if I cannot afford to live in my own because of taxes - not because of my mortgage or utility bills - I will have to move and some of the real estate companies like Campus Apartments or University City Housing will snatch it and strip off all the original features and turn it into student housing ... and all my years of careful and painsaking restoration would be for naught.
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$1850 a year lunch money.. 
Shat up and pay up.. You are still paying peanuts
