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Old 01-08-2013, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,700 posts, read 14,615,693 times
Reputation: 3663

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mancat100 View Post
It's not that we don't understand. It's more like, based on past history, we don't trust the city to make these changes in a fair and equitable and efficient manner.
I understand completely... it's just that as of now, I trust them. There have been far too many positive changes currently for this administration to go and pull something that stupid and f*** everything up.

And for whoever is saying that the city is doing nothing about the tax delinquent properties around the city, you are wrong, the city IS trying to do everything they can. That's why the city is implementing the "Land Bank" which had to go through the state to be legalized. The Land Bank will sell most if not all vacant land in Philadelphia whether they are owned by the city, an organization or privately. If you sit on a vacant building or vacant land for too long, and are tax delinquent, the city will take the property you own via adverse possession and sell it to another developer.

Also, the city, along with Pittsburgh officials are in talks with State government currently to get the state to pass legislation to make it legal for municipalities to tax commercial and residential properties at different rates, because as of now, you cannot do that in PA.

Lastly, the city is considering taxing Non-profits who own a lot of land within the city such as Penn and CHOP. Non-profits in Philadelphia own the most land out of any city in the U.S.

THE CITY IS NOT RAISING TAXES ON "UPSTANDING, TAX PAYING CITIZENS," AS SOME HAVE SUGGESTED. THEY ARE CORRECTING PHILADELPHIA'S RIDICULOUSLY OUT DATED TAX SYSTEM ONE STEP AT A TIME. PROPERTY TAXES HAVE NOT BEEN UPDATED SINCE 1962 IN WHICH MOST PROPERTIES AROUND THE CORE WERE BLIGHTED AND THE NEIGHBORHOODS WERE GHETTO. THE POINT OF AVI IS TO REASSESS THESE PROPERTIES TO THEIR CURRENT DAYS WORTH, SINCE MOST OF THOSE PROPERTIES HAVE NOW REVERSED AND ARE IN VIBRANT, NICE AND OR GENTRIFYING NEIGHBORHOODS. I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT MANY PROPERTIES IN THE NORTHEAST WILL HAVE INCREASED PROPERTY TAXES BY MUCH.

I KNOW THE GENERAL REACTION TO THE WORDS "INCREASED TAXES" IN ANY SENSE AMONG PROPERTY OWNERS USUALLY MEANS TO START MASS PANIC, but just relax and watch how it plays out. I'm positive everything will be fine in the end.

Last edited by RightonWalnut; 01-08-2013 at 07:25 PM..
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:58 PM
 
2,933 posts, read 4,089,100 times
Reputation: 2784
$512 million is 15% of $3.4 billion

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
Totally agree with that first line and that last line. Let's not forget I began my involvement in this thread by coming out against those who were telling people "to just shut up and pay the piper, philly's real estate taxes are too low". You can keep batting down straw men if you wish but no where in all the many things I've typed in this thread have I said that "letting scofflaws get away with paying no taxes" is my idea of a "fix". Philly needs to do a better job collecting it's taxes. Philly needs to find a balance between making Philly an attractive place to run a business and letting businesses run roughshod over taxpayers. But philly also needs to fix it's tax system. The system as is, is totally f****d.
I'm not batting down straw men (and I can accuse you of the same thing). I appreciate you calling people out for being trolls. OTOH, you've basically said over and over some version of "getting that money back is too difficult. If it was easy it would already be done. THe city needs more revenue."

And my answer is - I agree, and I'm happy to pay it, provided that the City isn't squandering the funds I already give them. to raise taxes with no plans to collect revenue already owed or to use that revenue to offset a tax hike is ludicrous. full stop.

Quote:
I've looked at houses in Bella Vista that have asking prices of over 300 grand and have property taxes under 1,000. I mean come on now. That isn't right. That isn't fair. That isn't equitable. It needs to be fixed. People should be taxed on what their homes are worth, not what they worth in 1962 or whenever the hell was the last time philly "fixed" it's tax code. Now does that mean property taxes should suddenly be jacked up on people all over the city forcing them to move out? no. But we need to at least begin this process, on new purchases etc.

The system is broken. It needs to be fixed. Regardless of everything else.
Property taxes should be based on the last sale price x inflation. I've said that 4x now. Over the long-term home values rarely outpace inflation so it's a fair guide. If you bought your house 5 years ago for $200k then it would be valued at $231k today. That's how all the property in the city should be assessed and it won't cost millions of $ to send people out to look at each house. It'll take a couple of interns with a laptop and a calculator.

There's also absolutely no way that the NPT and wage tax should go away completely. As i've already said, I think the gross receipts tax should go away immediately, I think the wage tax and NPT should be cut in half over the next 10 years . . . but I insist that an over-reliance on property taxes will be disastrous 25 years from now when the next real estate bubble bursts.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:00 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 21,790,823 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
No its not.

well, tom_567 agrees too.. And he is right. Why would you stay In the city with sub par schools, safety, police services, when you can get great schools, clean and safe area and wonderful Police services for the same cost?


"In Philadelphia, someone making $100,000 a year is paying $7000 in state and local taxes plus their property taxes. If $1800doubles to $3600, you are now on par with Collingswood, NJ at the same income bracket."
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:04 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 18,975,149 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
Am I the only homeowner who is really worried about the property taxes going up on my home?

The fact is our properties are going to be assessed for their "true market value." Nearly all of us live in homes that are assessed for much less than what our houses are worth on the market. Some of us are surviving by barely making ends meet in this depressed economy, and having to pay significantly more in property taxes is a nightmare scerario.

I was speaking to a neighbor the other day. I asked, how much do you they will raise us ... 15%, 20%, 25% (knowing full well that is wishful thinking on my part)?. The response was "Oh no! More than double - maybe triple or quadruple!!!"

Yikes.

What do you think?
Being from Philly, i know this....you get the government that you deserve.

This is going to be nothing less than a transfer of wealth from the productive to the recipients.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:14 PM
 
2,933 posts, read 4,089,100 times
Reputation: 2784
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancat100 View Post
It's more like, based on past history, we don't trust the city to make these changes in a fair and equitable and efficient manner.
Exactly. THANK YOU. Because it hasn't even started yet and it's already arbitrary and capricious.

Live in a neighborhood that has improved aesthetically over the last 5 years but still has the same crime and terrible schools? Your house is worth, let me guess here, $150k sounds good to me.

You spent how much money fixing up your house from the deplorable condition it was in when you bought it? Tax hike!

People bought their houses and signed their mortgages based on the property taxes at the time. No one could reasonably foresee a 300-500% rise in their taxes in a single year. It's going to be disastrous for the real estate market in every neighborhood that has seen a turn-around over the last 10 years.

Even without the missing $512 million I would still be all in for this if the property tax rise = an automatic cut in the wage tax and BPT. I don't even need it to be revenue neutral - just as long as every 100% rise in property taxes was equal to a half point on the wage tax (or something along those lines).
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:36 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 21,790,823 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Being from Philly, i know this....you get the government that you deserve.

This is going to be nothing less than a transfer of wealth from the productive to the recipients.
Thanks to 'you know who'...
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,700 posts, read 14,615,693 times
Reputation: 3663
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87 View Post
well, tom_567 agrees too.. And he is right. Why would you stay In the city with sub par schools, safety, police services, when you can get great schools, clean and safe area and wonderful Police services for the same cost?


"In Philadelphia, someone making $100,000 a year is paying $7000 in state and local taxes plus their property taxes. If $1800doubles to $3600, you are now on par with Collingswood, NJ at the same income bracket."
The city STILL PLANS TO REDUCE THE WAGE TAX. Until they DON'T do it, this shouldn't even be a discussion. As of now, and what will continue to be in the future, unless the city does not reduce the wage tax (which would be a stupid move because the entire purpose of the reworking of the tax structure IS TO ATTRACT NEW BUSINESS), then we can have this conversation. As of now, it has not happened and it's not supposed to happen. Also, some people, like MYSELF, prefer the city over the suburbs no matter what. Great walkability, great restaurants, great public transit, great shops, great amenities, great parks, great museums, great public transit and in turn, vast connectivity to a myriad of urban neighborhoods all with different character and feel, etc. etc. I can walk to work, I can walk to shops, I can walk to get something to eat, I can walk to pick up groceries, I can walk to meet my friends for a beer at a bar. FANTASTIC. No suburbs for me thank you. Enjoy not being able to get drunk. Unless you condone drunk driving of course
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:19 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 21,790,823 times
Reputation: 2353
Wow. So you like the city because you can get drunk easier? Wonderful reason!

Oh and the city 'plans' to reduce the wage tax? LOL okay. I plan to win the lottery too
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,700 posts, read 14,615,693 times
Reputation: 3663
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87 View Post
Wow. So you like the city because you can get drunk easier? Wonderful reason!

Oh and the city 'plans' to reduce the wage tax? LOL okay. I plan to win the lottery too
No, just one of the many many reasons I enjoy the city. I guess you just neglected to comprehend everything else I said. As for the wage tax reduction, it was halted due to the economic recession, and the phasing out was set off until 2014, when it is supposed to continue.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
1,567 posts, read 3,101,597 times
Reputation: 1664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
The city STILL PLANS TO REDUCE THE WAGE TAX. Until they DON'T do it, this shouldn't even be a discussion. As of now, and what will continue to be in the future, unless the city does not reduce the wage tax (which would be a stupid move because the entire purpose of the reworking of the tax structure IS TO ATTRACT NEW BUSINESS), then we can have this conversation. As of now, it has not happened and it's not supposed to happen. Also, some people, like MYSELF, prefer the city over the suburbs no matter what. Great walkability, great restaurants, great public transit, great shops, great amenities, great parks, great museums, great public transit and in turn, vast connectivity to a myriad of urban neighborhoods all with different character and feel, etc. etc. I can walk to work, I can walk to shops, I can walk to get something to eat, I can walk to pick up groceries, I can walk to meet my friends for a beer at a bar. FANTASTIC. No suburbs for me thank you. Enjoy not being able to get drunk. Unless you condone drunk driving of course
I much prefer city living too and currently live in one of the "it" neighborhoods - Spruce Hill. Look, I can afford to absorb the impending $2500 property tax increase if I have to. I'm not worried about losing my home. This is ALL about principle for me. Some people are going to get off scott free and I'm going to take a hit to subsidize it. It's blatantly unjust, and it might just pi** me off enough to leave. I live here by choice and I could just as easily choose to leave.

Remember......it's the Scofflaw Subsidy. I've got friends who write for one of the local weeklies and I'm going to see if I can get that term out there.
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