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Old 03-20-2013, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
287 posts, read 320,474 times
Reputation: 98

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We don't need rubbish chains. Philly has a high quality local coffee scene. And just to remind everyone that Philly is #1 city for fine dining so Starbucks and other junk not needed here.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 03-25-2013 at 06:10 PM.. Reason: Removed inappropriate language
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:35 PM
 
Location: a swanky suburb in my fancy pants
3,391 posts, read 8,387,207 times
Reputation: 1604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
I know what the working class is, neither did I say it was bad... but people tend to associate the "Working Class" as a peg lower than "the middle class" If you know what I mean ... but you are over generalizing the city.

Obviously there are wealthy in Center City and Chestnut Hill, but there are also wealthy in:

Graduate Hospital
Bella Vista
Queen Village
Hawthorne
Fairmount
Spring Garden
Northern Liberties
Spruce Hill
Wynnefield
Wynnefield Heights
Overbrook Park
East Mt. Airy
West Mt. Airy
Fox Chase and some other sections of the Northeast

Although Center City and Chestnut Hill are the highest concentration, they are not the only sections.
Most of these places are extensions of Center City which I probably gave too much credit to and the others aren't upper middle class by suburban standards. Go to City-Data home page, look up median household income and zero in on Philadelphia. Sometimes your love affair with philly distorts your judgement IMO and I mean that in the most polite way.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:13 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,700 posts, read 13,914,702 times
Reputation: 3656
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001 View Post
Most of these places are extensions of Center City which I probably gave too much credit to and the others aren't upper middle class by suburban standards. Go to City-Data home page, look up median household income and zero in on Philadelphia. Sometimes your love affair with philly distorts your judgement IMO and I mean that in the most polite way.
Lol... no it doesn't. I don't mean these entire neighborhoods are wealthy, but you act like there are not wealthy people living in these neighborhoods at all. I just don't think you know what you are talking about honestly.

Sure, I'll play your game though... and also, the census demographic statistics is usually pretty off, and usually has a margin of error of $30k or more... Also... these numbers are from 2009, and are now 4 years old... that is four years of gentrification that these numbers do not account for.

Here are all the tracts outside of Center City with at least a $70k median income or higher (which is generally consider upper middle class):

Overbrook- 3 tracts- $128,588, $71,790, $127,128
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Overbrook Farms- would have some, but the student population from St Joe's skews the numbers http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Wynnefield- 1 tract- $111,259
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Girard Estates- 1 tract- $82,835
www.city-data.com/neighborhood/Girard-Estates-Philadelphia-PA.html$

Queen Village- 2 tracts- $71,216, $73,798
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Graduate Hospital- 1 tract- $78,644
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Fairmount- 1 tract- $76,435
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Northern Liberties- 1 tract- $72,795
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

West Oak Lane- 2 tracts- $70,033, $74,444
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

East Falls- 2 tracts- $98,983, $126,897
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Manayunk- 2 tracts- $71,389, $85,345
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Roxborough- 4 tracts- $77,470, $98,254, $70,356, $84,341
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Wissahickon- 1 tract- $200,000
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Cedarbrook- 1 tract- $71,790
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

East Mt. Airy- 7 tracts- $71,289, $72,077, $70,786, $74,401, $76,595, $91,327
$117,659
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

West Mt. Airy- 9 tracts- $74,874, $73,045, $71,945, $72,744, $122,334, $122,987, $111,451, $172,264, $190,455

Chestnut Hill- 9 tracts- $73,949, $97,346, $91,371, $86,923, $105,426, $101,846, $143,423, $147,941, over $200,000
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Rhawnhurst- 1 tract- $71,432
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Fox Chase- 1 tract- $76,811
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Pennypack- $82,835
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Crestmont Farms- 2 tracts- $103,838, $81,517
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Ashton Woodenbridge- 1 tract- $85,524
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Bustleton- 4 tracts- $70,786, $73,061, $94,974, $103,877
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Byberry- 3 tracts- $71,451, $74,635, $79,100
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Somerton- 3 tracts- $75,127, $73,196, $91,069
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

Garden Court, Spruce Hill, Cedar Park, Squirrel Hill and Woodland Terrace certainly have higher tracts, but again, the massive student population in this area skew the numbers
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...elphia-PA.html

You get the idea? Also, you can't really compare the suburbs to the city... that's just unfair for numerous reasons.

Lastly, in the city, instead of looking at median income, I think to get better perspective of the area, you have to look at housing values, and what houses are selling for because empty nesters/senior citizens, renters, students, and your random PHA, Section 8 houses can drastically skew and throw off income statistics. Looking at what houses are selling for, will give you a better perspective on how much wealth is in a neighborhood. Get it?
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:22 AM
 
Location: a swanky suburb in my fancy pants
3,391 posts, read 8,387,207 times
Reputation: 1604
Now I feel bad that you went to all that trouble just for me. The census is wrong? City residents all got huge raises in the last 4 years? It's not fair to compare the city with the suburbs? How can I argue with logic like yours? It is what it is and people will have to make up their own mind who makes more sense.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Bergen County, NJ
153 posts, read 360,751 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
Lol... Get it?
The one thing is, that you have to get into the zip code pages, because for example, the $200k tract in Wissahickon Park, has a population of 47, with 22 households.
http://www.city-data.com/zips/19128.html
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,700 posts, read 13,914,702 times
Reputation: 3656
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001 View Post
Now I feel bad that you went to all that trouble just for me. The census is wrong? City residents all got huge raises in the last 4 years? It's not fair to compare the city with the suburbs? How can I argue with logic like yours? It is what it is and people will have to make up their own mind who makes more sense.
Lol. I didn't say the census is wrong, but they don't count every single human being. They take samples of a smaller population. Also, if you ACTUALLY LOOK at the census numbers and demographics, THE INCOME STATISTICS USUALLY HAVE A MARGIN OF ERROR OF AT LEAST $30K. Do you know what that means? Apparently not. It means they could be wrong by at least thirty thousand dollars in median income for EACH NEIGHBORHOOD.

You can't compare the city to the suburbs because they are two different entities entirely. Cities all around the country have long been ignored, dis-invested in and left to rot while the middle class and the wealthy move to the suburbs. How is it then fair to compare the two? We know there are generally poorer areas in cities than in suburbs. Also, the city has a HIGHER PERCENTAGE of renters. Also, there are higher concentrations of students, and senior citizens as well as higher concentrations of poor/poverty/PHA/Section 8. How is it, in your mind, fair to compare the two when they are so completely different in every metric?

Apparently you can't argue with my logic because it's too above your comprehension level to understand what I am saying.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,700 posts, read 13,914,702 times
Reputation: 3656
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZM91 View Post
The one thing is, that you have to get into the zip code pages, because for example, the $200k tract in Wissahickon Park, has a population of 47, with 22 households.
http://www.city-data.com/zips/19128.html
Understandably, but using Census tracts shows that there ARE IN FACT wealthy households there. It shows a more detailed description of each individual tract in the area, instead of a broad overview of the area. In the suburbs, you have maybe 5,000 living a zipcode? In the city there is triple that amount living in a zip code, with high concentrations of renters, senior citizens, students, PHA/Section 8 to skew statistics. If you go back to my post, I was not saying the entire neighborhoods are wealthy... and the wealthy are not representative of the entire area, but I'm saying there are still in fact there... make sense? Generalizing the entire city to poor or working class outside of Center City is not correct, and that's all I am saying, because there are wealthy in Wynnefield, South Philly, Northeast, Mt. Airy, Chestnut Hill, etc.

Here is an example to help you understand. I believe two Zip Codes cover Rittenhouse Square, but also cover sections of South Philadelphia. The median household income in the Rittenhouse Square Zip is then something like $70k? We all know Rittenhouse has a MUCH larger median income than that. There are condos and houses going in the millions for Christ's sake... now we are telling the area it's not wealthy? That's laughable. That's why I said you get a better idea of the type of income/population living in an area when you look at median housing values, because it shows what people in the area are paying (how much money they have), and it eliminates anything that can skew statistics (students, renters, PHA, etc.)

Last edited by RightonWalnut; 03-21-2013 at 03:29 PM..
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:22 AM
 
127 posts, read 284,322 times
Reputation: 53
Because Wawa. It took a while before my wife understood that Wawa = / = Store 24 or some other crappy convenience store. The sandwiches are delicious and the coffee's not bad. Needless to say, she's on the bandwagon now.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,166 posts, read 1,450,456 times
Reputation: 444
I still don't see the appeal of Wawa. We had places back in Michigan that were worlds better.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:27 PM
 
725 posts, read 1,145,752 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnote11 View Post
I still don't see the appeal of Wawa. We had places back in Michigan that were worlds better.
OMG I guess it's a Philly native thing, really.
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