Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Why wouldn't one act respectfully and politely with a cop/s that has pulled you over, whether you're white, asian, hispanic, or black? You can hate cops but you want to not get a citation or ticket. Why would you make an exception that a black driver was being especially polite? Why wouldn't he or she be regardless. So, other than your friend having his N moment and knowing how to act, how would other A-A drivers act? Your friend is the A-A exception in these situations?
I'm not making an exception; my friend commented on that himself without my prompting after the stop ended. I've never been less than civil when pulled over by an officer either, and in the incidents where I was (clear moving violations where I was in the wrong, though one of them could be considered a judgement call), I got sent off with warnings too. But I could tell the difference between my own form of civility and his deferential behavior.
I don't know if you know this, but in the Southeast, where most of the blacks who populate our large Northeastern cities came from during the Second Great Migration (I'm a Midwesterner, remember), blacks were expected to behave extremely deferentially to white people, period, often in exchange for at the best being treated as though they weren't there. I don't know if the absence of deference some blacks display in encounters with the police are some sort of subconscious reaction to the absence of the threats they once faced for not being deferential to whites, period, or it's something else, but yes, it's there - and I'm sorry, but given the history, I'm not going to sit on them for not being deferential, even if, as that friend of mine observed, doing so reduces the likelihood of confrontation.
I'll have a little more to say on a related aspect of this below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms
I can't enter a business just to use the free wi-fi without ordering anything. You are not a threat given your age and appearance. Don't Public Libraries provide free wi-fi?
They do, and public terminals (time-restricted) too. But if a business closer to you than the library branch has a policy that doesn't discourage people from lingering - the way they might at a Parisian café, FWIW - what's wrong with taking advantage of it?
You've now had two black people, both older, one male, one female, and at least one white person here testify that they've gone into a number of coffee shops, not bought anything, and sat down and occupied space in them without hassle. Given that, it might not be unreasonable for people to believe that absent some posted policy to the contrary (like the signs in McDonald's), it's okay to hang at a coffee shop even if one isn't drinking the shop's coffee. I understand your point about keeping the business going, but obviously the people running these businesses either aren't really suffering loss for doing so or perceive the goodwill gained by their welcoming policies good for business overall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms
Public libraries or public parks used to be places folks made as their ''home away from home'', not business establishments. There's a reason as well that the outdoor seating at 12/Walnut SB ended.
I'm going to keep an eye out come May.
Now for the other observation: I just told you I'm a Midwesterner whose father's family has long roots in Missouri, and kyb01's family goes back several generations in this state. There are regional differences among blacks and African-Americans in attiude, behavior, upbringing and speech that tend to get subsumed by both blacks and whites alike.
I'd like to hear the account of the two men that were arrested.
Like I stated, they are professional commercial real estate brokers; this national exposure is good for their business in the end.
I would expect them to make a pubic account of this incident, it's national story so they would national attention for their commercial real estate business. It's like a free national TV commercial; how could they not use their public account of this incident as side-show freebie for business? The business calls and e-mails will be off the charts.
Anyone know what real estate brokerage they own or work for? Anyone know their names yet? Who are they?
I'm not making an exception; my friend commented on that himself without my prompting after the stop ended. I've never been less than civil when pulled over by an officer either, and in the incidents where I was (clear moving violations where I was in the wrong, though one of them could be considered a judgement call), I got sent off with warnings too. But I could tell the difference between my own form of civility and his deferential behavior.
I don't know if you know this, but in the Southeast, where most of the blacks who populate our large Northeastern cities came from during the Second Great Migration (I'm a Midwesterner, remember), blacks were expected to behave extremely deferentially to white people, period, often in exchange for at the best being treated as though they weren't there. I don't know if the absence of deference some blacks display in encounters with the police are some sort of subconscious reaction to the absence of the threats they once faced for not being deferential to whites, period, or it's something else, but yes, it's there - and I'm sorry, but given the history, I'm not going to sit on them for not being deferential, even if, as that friend of mine observed, doing so reduces the likelihood of confrontation.
I'll have a little more to say on a related aspect of this below.
They do, and public terminals (time-restricted) too. But if a business closer to you than the library branch has a policy that doesn't discourage people from lingering - the way they might at a Parisian café, FWIW - what's wrong with taking advantage of it?
You've now had two black people, both older, one male, one female, and at least one white person here testify that they've gone into a number of coffee shops, not bought anything, and sat down and occupied space in them without hassle. Given that, it might not be unreasonable for people to believe that absent some posted policy to the contrary (like the signs in McDonald's), it's okay to hang at a coffee shop even if one isn't drinking the shop's coffee. I understand your point about keeping the business going, but obviously the people running these businesses either aren't really suffering loss for doing so or perceive the goodwill gained by their welcoming policies good for business overall.
I'm going to keep an eye out come May.
Now for the other observation: I just told you I'm a Midwesterner whose father's family has long roots in Missouri, and kyb01's family goes back several generations in this state. There are regional differences among blacks and African-Americans in attitude, behavior, upbringing and speech that tend to get subsumed by both blacks and whites alike.
Deferential and polite are pretty much the same thing: being respectful. It's also called common sense when you're dealing with any cop. So, if a white person isn't deferential or is impolite, they're still not getting a citation? This rule only applies to blacks dealing with white cops? I understand the history of the southeast and all....
You also assume that you know as do the ''witnesses'', that weren't paying attention to what may have gone on went prior to this incident. You and the others haven't had a problem; maybe because you and others didn't cause a problem. Every time I go to this particular SB, there's a variety of people there.
So, for some reason, this location has decided to target A-A males. Interesting.
Btw, I haven't seen outdoor seating at the 12/Walnut location for a long time now. Also, I specifically asked a worker at 12/Walnut after putting up with loud drug dealers arranging a meet-up,while charging their phones, then simultaneously seeing a street person emptying out the sugars, napkins etc. why nothing was done about it....the response wasn't related to business is so good we don't care or the welcoming policies you mention, it was to avoid exactly what's going on now at 18/Spruce...racism accusations....lol..go figure.
The point you seem to be missing is that if a white guy or white woman had been hanging out waiting for someone without ordering, maybe they would have been admonished, BUT they certainly would not have had the cops called on them!
That is not necessarily true. Its like when your speeding on a highway, everyone does it, but you happened to get pulled over. These guys happened to be the subject of an unsettling incident. Playing devils advocate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms
I'm not missing any point here.
The point I am missing though: why is this a national story?
These two guys came into the store and asked to use the restroom. Told restrooms were for customers only, as was stated up-thread this is Starbucks new policy, these two gents decided to stay in the store and refused to leave. Call was made to 911 that they were trespassing; out they went in cuffs. Bye!
They were in there to use the restroom and, for some reason, refused to leave and not buy anything. Bye!
Naturally the story morphs into they were waiting to meet someone there and social media picks up the video, and it's a national story about racism in Philly.
I'm so glad Starbucks is cracking down on this b.s. going on in its stores. Hoping to see the same thing happen, if needed, at the notorious 12th/Walnut location. Fortunately no one was injured or killed during the recent robbery at the 18th/Spruce location.
WaWa needs to adopt Starbucks ''restrooms for customers only'' policy immediately.
I do agree this does not need to be a national story (you can thank social media for that). Also, after reading through a few different news sources and some idiot Twitter accounts, this has turned into a rendition of whisper down the lane.
This is why I hate social media (and I am in my twenties). People see one thing online and bam its a fact and they won't even listen to the other side of the story. I am also getting tired of the ultra left movement of protesting/shunning/banning anything and everything that does not agree with their agenda. Starbucks is a private company therefore if they want to enforce their policies they can do so, toward anyone. If you don't like then go else wear.
That being said, this incident does seem a bit questionable, I would like to know if the men were being rude to the staff/ if they were being obnoxious, because that plays into the situation a lot.
I have never been asked to leave a Starbucks, but I was denied a bathroom more than once, until I purchased something, so again I don't think we need a national outcry over this even if there was profiling involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1
^^^^^^That makes sense. Thanks. Of course the Media will promote it as an act of racism, and I fell for it. I should know better. Sometimes people just need to use common sense. I think the police today are called for next to nothing. They must feel like baby sitters.
Yet no-one seems to have respect for them anymore.
The famous and award winning Ernest Owens is having a field day on this one......
I can't enter a business just to use the free wi-fi without ordering anything. You are not a threat given your age and appearance. Don't Public Libraries provide free wi-fi?
The main branch of the Phila Free Library, at 20th and Vine,is my neighborhood library. But I don't go there for computer access. I use it for other reasons: author events and research.
To be fair, how often are Congressional credentials pulled out in a traffic stop? C'mon. What was the alleged reason for this ''driving while black'' incident? Speeding, weaving out of lane, tail or brake light out?
You can probably find out the actual details about what happened by googling it and him.
I just googled it. Multiple links. Knock off the self-righteous attitude and read about it. And, he got pulled over 7 seven in '16.
Yet no-one seems to have respect for them anymore.
The famous and award winning Ernest Owens is having a field day on this one......
What awards?!
Anyhow being gay man you might have a different view about cops if you had come of age in a different time. Hmmm, say if you had been alive on June 28, 1969 in the vicinity of the Stonewall Inn.
You can probably find out the actual details about what happened by googling it and him.
I just googled it. Multiple links. Knock off the self-righteous attitude and read about it. And, he got pulled over 7 seven in '16.
Self-righteous attitude? Where?
I did read about this Congressman. Pulled over 7 times; he actually didn't say how many times he was speeding, only held up his fingers with the V sign. I guess that means twice?
I've been followed by cops in certain areas while driving an older car. Crossed into a suburb and immediately a cop car pulled out and began following my car. Actually tailed it when after I made a right turn out of their sight for a while and got to my destination before they could stop me. Happened more than you would think. Then again the city I came from, didn't matter what color you were, in the suburban malls, would not take your check if you had a city address, that kind of thing. Race didn't matter; you were from ''that city'', you're suspect.
Of course cops have followed me in past waiting for a minor infraction to occur. I was actually pulled over in a suburb driving a nice car after being tailed by a cop for a bit; made sure I was doing the speed limit etc. The speed limit was 25 mph. Flashers go off. I pull over; cop wanted to know why I was going so slow....uh, the speed limit is 25....cop's facial reaction was ''oh sh*t, it is?'' oops. Then he had to come up with something about the vehicle tag being off center or some other b.s. Ran the plates, ran DL etc.
While visiting Philly, before moving here, I was waiting outside friend's WashWest townhouse as I was separated from the group I was with while out at night; standing a few minutes, cop on foot comes strolling by and questions me; makes me empty my pockets, show him an out of state ID....now I get frisked while standing with hands on my buddy's townhouse.
I did read about this Congressman. Pulled over 7 times; he actually didn't say how many times he was speeding, only held up his fingers with the V sign. I guess that means twice?
I've been followed by cops in certain areas while driving an older car. Crossed into a suburb and immediately a cop car pulled out and began following my car. Actually tailed it when after I made a right turn out of their sight for a while and got to my destination before they could stop me. Happened more than you would think. Then again the city I came from, didn't matter what color you were, in the suburban malls, would not take your check if you had a city address, that kind of thing. Race didn't matter; you were from ''that city'', you're suspect.
Of course cops have followed me in past waiting for a minor infraction to occur. I was actually pulled over in a suburb driving a nice car after being tailed by a cop for a bit; made sure I was doing the speed limit etc. The speed limit was 25 mph. Flashers go off. I pull over; cop wanted to know why I was going so slow....uh, the speed limit is 25....cop's facial reaction was ''oh sh*t, it is?'' oops. Then he had to come up with something about the vehicle tag being off center or some other b.s. Ran the plates, ran DL etc.
While visiting Philly, before moving here, I was waiting outside friend's WashWest townhouse as I was separated from the group I was with while out at night; standing a few minutes, cop on foot comes strolling by and questions me; makes me empty my pockets, show him an out of state ID....now I get frisked while standing with hands on my buddy's townhouse.
What do I get to call these incidents?
Anyone can get profiled or checked out.
Sigh. Tim Scott is a United States Senator from South Carolina, not a congressman.
Sigh. Tim Scott is a United States Senator from South Carolina, not a congressman.
OK....whatever. He's a member of Congress. I don't live in South Carolin; don't know Tim Scott. Don't know South Carolina U.S. Senators off-hand, as with most other states. Does that temper my ''self-righteousness'' for you, whatever it was supposed to be?
That's all you got? Seriously? Sigh indeed.
Now Starbucks CEO is on his way for the #PeeToo movement started in our very own city.
Last edited by Kamms; 04-16-2018 at 12:22 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.